Real Road 2.0 and track temperatures on tyres problem (July RC)

I

ilgrillo

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Um, it seems that Real Road 2.0 and track temperatures are still not working properly.

Car:
Corvette C8.R GTE with new tyre physics.
Circuit: Silverstone International
Real Road: Natural Progressing
Ambient temp: 10°C
Fuel: 50 L
Setup: no change (not even tyre pressure)

rFactor 2(rFactor2.exe) Screenshot 2022.07.16 - 16.44.54.59.png


After 6.4 laps

1rFactor 2(rFactor2.exe) Screenshot 2022.07.16 - 16.53.42.81 copia.jpg


Car:
Corvette C8.R GTE with the new tyre physics.
Circuit: Silverstone International
Real Road: Natural Progressing
Ambient temp: 30°C
Fuel: 50 L
Setup: no change (not even tyre pressure)

rFactor 2(rFactor2.exe) Screenshot 2022.07.16 - 16.58.25.02.png


After 6.4 laps

2rFactor 2(rFactor2.exe) Screenshot 2022.07.16 - 17.06.27.60 copia.jpg


The pressures are almost the same even though the asphalt temperature difference is about 20°C.

The left tyres temperature is almost identical between the two simulations.
Right tyres temperature is 10°C higher (but I had a slight blockage in the turn before).

Between the two stints I however found a car with more grip with the warmer environment (about 42°C the asphalt).
 
ilgrillo said:
Um, it seems that Real Road 2.0 and track temperatures are still not working properly.

Car:
Corvette C8.R GTE with new tyre physics.
Circuit: Silverstone International
Real Road: Natural Progressing
Ambient temp: 10°C
Fuel: 50 L
Setup: no change (not even tyre pressure)

View attachment 46268

After 6.4 laps

View attachment 46269

Car:
Corvette C8.R GTE with the new tyre physics.
Circuit: Silverstone International
Real Road: Natural Progressing
Ambient temp: 30°C
Fuel: 50 L
Setup: no change (not even tyre pressure)

View attachment 46270

After 6.4 laps

View attachment 46272

The pressures are almost the same even though the asphalt temperature difference is about 20°C.

The left tyres temperature is almost identical between the two simulations.
Right tyres temperature is 10°C higher (but I had a slight blockage in the turn before).

Between the two stints I however found a car with more grip with the warmer environment (about 42°C the asphalt).
Click to expand...
Are you sure that you did drive the 2 tests in the absolute same way?
And you can not compare asphalt temperature directly with tire pressure.
It is the tire temperature that affects the pressure and if the asphalt is warmer, the tire should be hotter and so also the pressure should be hotter.
But, of course, your driving style also has an influence on the tire temperature.
I would suggest to do such tests on an oval, where you can drive in the same way easier than on a normal track.
 
Michael K. said:
Are you sure that you did drive the 2 tests in the absolute same way?
And you can not compare asphalt temperature directly with tire pressure.
It is the tire temperature that affects the pressure and if the asphalt is warmer, the tire should be hotter and so also the pressure should be hotter.
But, of course, your driving style also has an influence on the tire temperature.
I would suggest to do such tests on an oval, where you can drive in the same way easier than on a normal track.
Click to expand...
I don't think his driving influences the test much ..... I tried it too, it is very likely that the relationship between pressure, temperature and real road is still on the high seas ....
 
I believe that the tyre pressure is not included in the model yet.
Only grip and wear are influenced by track temperatures.
Which is already a great deal, albeit not yet at the level - on that front - of the "tyre pressure simulator"...
 
vava74 said:
I believe that the tyre pressure is not included in the model yet.
Only grip and wear are influenced by track temperatures.
Which is already a great deal, albeit not yet at the level - on that front - of the "tyre pressure simulator"...
Click to expand...
"half real road". Ok.
 
Michael K. said:
It is the tire temperature that affects the pressure and if the asphalt is warmer, the tire should be hotter and so also the pressure should be hotter.
.
Click to expand...


In fact, the temperature of the asphalt (with a difference of 20°C) did not affect the tyre’s temperature (look at the left ones: always loaded at Silverstone)

Yes, I was very consistent on the times. At most 5 tenths difference per lap on both stints.

With the warmer asphalt I had a better lap pace by 1 second. The car was more slippery with the colder asphalt.
So from that point of view, it's a good start.
 
All looks fine to me. Every post in this thread is just wild conjecture and nothing of substance. Like the RF2 equivalent of a conspiracy website.
 
in rF2 the ambient temperature has no effect on the tire, at least this was the case some time ago. It is a known problem from ancient times. You can check it by putting the warmest temperature in the environment, leaving the car stopped, your tires will lower their temperature below the ambient temperature. If you test in AC, your tires start at room temperature and their temperature rises due to contact with the track, which should always be warmer.
 
FAlonso said:
in rF2 the ambient temperature has no effect on the tire, at least this was the case some time ago. It is a known problem from ancient times. You can check it by putting the warmest temperature in the environment, leaving the car stopped, your tires will lower their temperature below the ambient temperature. If you test in AC, your tires start at room temperature and their temperature rises due to contact with the track, which should always be warmer.
Click to expand...
The latest release candidate now has active track temps which affect the tyre.
 
You can easily make tires hotter on 10C than on 30C depending on how much you abuse them.

Everybody knows that surface temps of tires can change very quickly, they are very sensitive. What you should look at should be tire core temps which you should be able to see from garage menu. And even that you can alter by having some different intensity of sliding during last few laps.

Also you tell that you found tire having more grip in warmer setting, this means you were indeed sliding less, thus putting less heat into it.
 
mantasisg said:
You can easily make tires hotter on 10C than on 30C depending on how much you abuse them.

Everybody knows that surface temps of tires can change very quickly, they are very sensitive. What you should look at should be tire core temps which you should be able to see from garage menu. And even that you can alter by having some different intensity of sliding during last few laps.

Also you tell that you found tire having more grip in warmer setting, this means you were indeed sliding less, thus putting less heat into it.
Click to expand...

I am now coming from a test at 60°C with asphalt at 66°C. Look at the tire pressure and compare it to the simulation at 10°C and asphalt at 16°C.
They are pretty much the same.
(Temperatures are little higher because it was easy to lock the tires under braking with the asphalt at 66°C.)
rFactor 2(rFactor2.exe) Screenshot 2022.07.17 - 15.42.07.45.png

You can try it, too.

But hey, I see it as a good thing. Finally, after years, rF2 is implementing temperature change on asphalt. This is a good thing for a simulator.
 
ilgrillo said:
I am now coming from a test at 60°C with asphalt at 66°C. Look at the tire pressure and compare it to the simulation at 10°C and asphalt at 16°C.
They are pretty much the same.
(Temperatures are little higher because it was easy to lock the tires under braking with the asphalt at 66°C.)
View attachment 46308
You can try it, too.

But hey, I see it as a good thing. Finally, after years, rF2 is implementing temperature change on asphalt. This is a good thing for a simulator.
Click to expand...
Soo it's oven hot, lap times are slower, pressures and temps are higher... I really don't see your point.
 
But the pressures aren’t higher! Look at the images, in the cockpit car display. (Upper left of the display).

Try yourself.
 
@ilgrillo Yes I should try, and I want to, but waiting for main build stable update.

I can't comment very well on pressures, don't know for sure what amount of pressure increase and in how fast it is expected to happen. But there is a difference, and I'd trust simulation for now.

The most important things to feel differences is to feel differences in tire wear and laptimes. Tire temps management obviously should be different as well, and eventually tire pressures too. But as I suggested before it might be reasonable to end up with similar figures, while doing different laptimes at different track temps. At optimum temps/pressures you'd have optimum wear, at optimum grip, yo uare capable to actually make tires work much harder which results in faster laptimes and tires becoming just as heated, but you do it by sliding tire a whole lot less past optimum slip ratios and slip angles. At too low or too high temps you might not be able to achieve optimum grip. When too cold you'd be sliding more and earlier due to tires not being at optimum temps, and by sliding you'd eventually get tires up to optimum temps and pressures, but it probably would be by the end of the turn, or even after the turn. Which is why you get worse lap, but see good pressure and temp in the screenshot you share. When in too hot temps, you might end up overheating the tire too much by certain phase of a turn, depending on how intense curves goes one after another, and how long they are, also eventually after some laps much more rapid wear should be noticeable and sliding itself should be immediately noticeable as more severe, unless tires are designed to run at furnace temps.

Some tires I have modded, I intuitively made
ThermalDepthAtSurface = The depth of the temperature sample layer used for contact properties
(i.e. grip and wear); if provisional second layer is disabled, tread will never be allowed to get thinner
than this value. Not recommended to push below the default value of 0.0001, as the accuracy of the
thermal conduction may suffer. Higher values will reduce temperature fluctuations felt in tyre
surface temperatures which are used for contact properties. Lower values would increase the
conductance, increasing fluctuations but as stated may create accuracy problems if the rate of
conductance is too quick for the physics sampling rate.
a little bit thicker than it was in source tires made by ISI. I just found fluctuations of temps too rapid, which is actually one thing that adds up to things like getting down to rather similar temps soon after a turn independently how hard you drive and perhaps even how hot it is, even if it is very hot, but it is still cooler than tire. There are more parameters in tires for each individual car in the sim, which can make differences right or wrong they are. Can't wait to test my own cars lol

Last but not least grip is actually result of a system which includes tire and tarmac surfaces. There is even a parameter in rF2 which regulates how much of it should depend on a surface, I recall it is less than 15%. For example, when tire skids over tarmac the bit of tarmac is overheating instantly too.
 
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