Ivan Baldo. Yes it is good to know about these things and thanks to you we know now Atleast i didn't know those things before. That SAT thing sounds interesting, but i can't get to AC forums now. Opinion about dampening. It is good thing and realistic in some cases, but it should be adjustable. Then you can adjust your steering wheel's friction + simulated dampening to be equal with real car's steering system's friction. Or you could disable it if you don't want any compromises with feeling the car. You maybe end up to better steering feel than in real life, but it is acceptable because in real car you feel things through chassis. You might also have lots of friction in your steering wheel and then you have no need for simulated friction. There is similar dampening in rf2 too and it can be adjusted from controller json file, but i don't remember that does it have any effect in its default setting.
Nope, not that. My wheel has been set up correctly for iracing for years. I'm fussy like that. No Domi, not the Z4. I refuse to drive the Z4 as it's the most "on rails" sim car I've ever driven. I had this behaviour with the Ruf Track, McLaren mp4-12c, Caddilac ctsv and some others. At the 24 hours of Daytona my team were using the Ruf track. I had a four hour stint. 3 &3/4 hours in to my stint I had one of these spins and flew in to the wall. About six of us looked at the spin and telemetry and nobody could come up with a single reason it happened so we just said "meh, iracing init". The spins would never have happened here.
iracing ffb = bump detector, no feedback other than bumps. Lots of people felt that way when I was using it, not just me. I can't imagine it being any different now.
Ok. The Z4 is on rails but it shows that behaviour too, when it starts to slide is pretty much impossible to recover.
I find these videos pretty interesting, but again like the previous video this is not about sims but about real world physics.
i would agree, outside of feeling the bumps in the tarmac its pretty mediocre. the binary grip issue is huge as well. rf2 vs iR skippy, for example, are different cars. iR seems more like a big kart. maybe it should be that way, idk. i often wonder if rf2 is realistic as slippery as the ISI cars tend to be; sure its fun & feels fantastic but im not positive its the most realistic. i feel like GT cars should be pretty 'on-rails', & thats plenty achievable in the sim (URD perhaps goes too far that way for example). i do feel like iR does better in some cases, there is more progression in grip in the lotus 49 or SRF for example. (edit: last sentence referring the havegrip/NOGRIP! problem in iR)
Neither are as good as they should be in my opinion. There are dynamics in Driver's Republic alpha - from almost 10 years ago - that are superior to RF2's or IRs light, slippy, low-powered open wheelers like the Skippys. Furthermore, I don't believe it's a case of further refining the physics of each's particular car (the Skippy), but rather, further refining/changing the core physics engine. On that note, I'd love to see more core physics advancements/updates outside the tyre-model because there are certain things I continue to experience which I have been experiencing, and have hardly changed since at-least F1 2002. Surely the core tyre models from F1-2002, to RF1, to RF2 are quite different to eachother (especially in RF2). Personally, I think that proves that more attention needs to be payed to the core's physics outside of the tyre model (without sacrificing attention paid to the tyre model since the tyre model is massively, and perhaps the most, important).
What kind of damping/resistence settings you people use? I did some testing and end up to these settings: "Damper" in wheel control panel: 100% "Steering resistance coefficient":0.01, "Steering resistance coefficient#":"Coefficient to use for steering resistance. Range: -1.0 to 1.0", "Steering resistance saturation":1, "Steering resistance saturation#":"Saturation value to use for steering resistance. Range: 0 - 1.0", "Steering resistance type":0, "Steering resistance type#":"0=use damping, 1=use friction", It was difficult to decide wheter to use damping at all. Tested between "Damper" in wheel control panel set to 100% and 0%. Now i think that the steering wheel feels more like a real cars steering wheel when using damping and with small "Steering resistance coefficient" it don't feel like it was loosing details from ffb. For some reason it felt best to me with "Steering resistance saturation" set to 1, but i don't really know what that setting does. Default is 0.1. My wheel is TX.
What those possible physics advancements outside the tyre-model would be in your opinion? First thing that came to my mind was that how car's weight distibution is simulated, but i don't know how it is done in rF2 or in other sims. To me it feels like the physics outside the tyre-model would be pretty easy to simulate accurately, and i am surprised if nowadays sims lack a lot on that department.
Well, that's the tricky part. While many consider tyres (and rightly so) black art magic. Suspension, weight distrubution and aero isn't straightforward at all. For example I still think aero in rF2 can leave me puzzled at times. Can't pin point the issue but sometimes sth works as it should sometimes not. Whatever the reason is. It is the most noticeable with OW cars. Do I think there is room for improvement? Hell lot of it. Ofc we won't get almost CFD like aero calculations in our eveyday PC sims. But calculating downforce isn't just about at speed 250 you generate xxxx N of downforce with wing setting at 25 or so. There are many other things that have to be considered to have properly calculated aero effects like ground clearance with your front wing. Rake and it's influence on diffuser, stalling, how stalling interacts with rear wing, wake from the spinning tyres, dirty air etc. It's all super mega complex stuff. You can have it 96 % right. 4 % margin may seem not that significant but one day you get 98 % correlation with what it looks like in RL and you feel like it is a completely new thing. 2 % eh? Who would have thought that it would make such a difference. I think tyres get the most attention due to them being the most direct link between you, car and physics. You may have the best suspension and aero calculations and values but with crappy tyres it feels like eveything is way off. While more accurate and more advanced tyres may hide some shortcomings with suspension and aero. I would choose best tyre calculations over best suspension and aero any day. Having both is a sim heaven which we will get one day, at least closer to it. Upgrades to suspension will happen in rF2, I'm almost sure of it. Chassis flex is an example of that there is still something that can be made in that department. Weight distribution. Interesting vid. Shows that even at iRacing which has been around for years and yet still come up with adjustments that can turn some things upside down. What I like about that changes other than how geeky it feels to see such things, mostly I love mastering technically what is given to us. If it's more advanced with further developments the happier I get because I like the challenge. I like the feeling of figuring sth out after hours and hours that add up to make days, weeks out of them. Sometimes I love it more than actual racing. Racing for me is like a reward for my work in understanding all this. An icing on a cake.
I guess you can't get involved in this unless you have something interesting or intelligent to say. Reading long winded explanations why my car does what it does when you always get other people do not agree with it, lol , whats the point ? Just show me where the track is ! haha Whether it is dynamic, canned, precise, lifelike or otherwise, honestly, I don't care. rF2 simply feels more believable then anything else I have ever driven by a fair way. AC and others feel hollow and just plain sad It is that simple to me.
re.iracings new suspension model is a nice upgrade ( I wasn't really interested in the news about it ) there's a tad more going on in their sim-cars now which only adds to the experience rf2 & iracing are right up there in the driving sims IMO ( although each feel very different & can take a while to adapt switching from one to the other ) using the Williams f ....taking some time to get use to it, McLaren MP-30 coming autumn with DRS & ERS , happy days p.s AC feels terrible to me & Ive not even tried it for a good 6 months not even since the last major updates & its VR compatible too
I think it's much more complex than that. We know the basic physics of stuff like weight shift and stuff, but assembling all the physics to have all the components of a car properly simulate the dynamics of a real car is another matter entirely. If it wasn't so, then every sim made in the last 5-10 years would have identical physics other than different tyre models, and I highly doubt that's the case. iRacing is another example. I notice some things that are extremely similar now in iRacing that I noticed when iRacing first came out 7, 8 years ago even though there have been a ton of tyre model updates. Another example is Project Cars: Even though they have had quite a few tyre model updates, and apparently even a completely different/separate tyre model from the original one, I still sometimes notice very similiar things from the days of the original tyre model. Same with NKP and it's updates, same with AC, etc. Each sim retains many of it's original driving characteristics despite all sorts of tyre model updates and even complete tyre model replacements (PCars' case, I believe). Each game runs on their own core physics engine, thats's why I believe that no matter how many tyre model updates get done, certain ISI-ish things, iRacing-ish things, PCar-ish things (or any game) will continue happening in each respective game since there doesn't seem to be too many core engine updates outside of the tyre model I agree, Durge. RF2 definitely seems the most raw, alive and realistic to me as well - it definitely is my sim of choice - but it still has issues stemming back from at least F1 2002 almost 15 years go despite having a much, much more advanced tyre model. This, to me, proves there's other core-physics coding and stuff that needs to be looked at outside of the tyre model.
Massively agree with u spin.... Sometimes I have to really think what us the huge deal with rf2.. Is it much different from say gsc!? I play it for the great Ai. It still seems very broken in many areas. I wonder will it ever be polished to completion. Having just tried some old pcars build I'm quite impressed I like their tyre model does feel real and different from the same ol gmotor mechanics.... All this bollocks about a Sims harder to drive must be realistic?! Makes me laugh. Pcars will give rf2 run fir its money I bet ya. Elitist wont av it vo lol. Only if there was one to rule them all. As much as rf2 is good, still feels like a tech demo. I'm doing a track day in a race spec formula Renault so ill soon know how real some of these Sims are.
Good to have you back I look at it this way Spin, I can spend 100's of hours reading intelligent thoughtful posts from people that understand way more then I do why X does Z better then Y .........or I can do laps in each and trust the seat of my pants. I wonder though how it would effect our views if we all had identical PCs, Monitors, wheel and pedals and all settings. Physics aside for mine....... iRacing - the premier online sim Assetto Corsa - the purists sim ProjectCARS - the GT of PC rFactor 2 - historic hardcore heaven GSC - relegated rF, GTL, GTR and Race to barely drive-able. jkjk P.S. If you took ISI engine, dynamics, physics and added it to all the titles above I would drive AC and pCARS as much as rF2. hehehe Things like dynamic weather, flashy visuals and effects and the differing car/track combos would shine even more.
Problem for me is that i can't trust the seat of my pants, because i haven't driven real race cars in real life, so i can't know surely what is realistic. Knowing something about the sims physics can give a hint about it.
