Hopefully sim-racing gamers want the most realism (and difficulty probably) possible, not something that is easy to drift or drive.
"so that we can ensure the car develops over its various versions to become the sim-car that the majority of sim-racing gamers love to play." Dude this just killed all interest for me. This mod is dead as far as I'm concerned. It's bad enough how everyone loves Lola because it confirms people's delusional beliefs that they could actually handle this car. At least this mod is honest about being bogus.
So what he said was wrong in your parallel universe way of thinking...right? From my understanding you are just thinking, if people is going to "help" with the development of the mod/car at the end is not going to be good or realistic because you think if a car is "driveable" it is unrealistic and bad? Man you need to look at how cars behave in races, go to an actual track and see an entire race, check at what speeds are they passing through the curves, the grip of the tires, how the slide works, and every little detail that you can check visually...then come again and we can have a talk about how a car behaves to start with some logic and common sense. That way of thinking that RACE CARS are hard to drive or impossible to handle...even while being too powerful and all...those are actual RACE CARS made to be fast in tracks. The realism that you can have in a simulation comes with finding the actual limit of the car and your own limit. And also all the rest that gives you the "feelings". (FFB, physics, etc) I think simulators sometimes are way exaggerated in some areas because it is impossible to "copy" all the variables that comes to the realism of each car and situation. They need to find a "balance" or something that gives you the better feedback or feel, so you can handle the car "naturally". If that doesn´t work the simulation will be bad. That part comes from the base of the game and ISI is doing a great job with it. Then each mod should put convincing physics to their models as well of course, but without actual knowledge of driving those cars in real life is almost impossible to know exactly how cars behave. So not you, not me, not anyone is an expert in that area...you may have a different interpretation of what it is driving a car so what you look for, or like, is different to what others think about that as well. This is like when you like other simulator because it does something that the other does not or "wrong". But after all this, tell me...do you ever have the chance to drive that LOLA in real life? Do you think a RACE car like that so close to the floor, with those big tires will be too hard to handle? I don´t find it easy when I try to find my limit, and I know I suck at driving but when I lost control of it I know that I could do way better but I can´t. I think the FFB is not so good (I guess a car of that "era" had a very strong FFB and heavy as well) in the LOLA mod (I think we are talking about Prixsim´s mod) but when it comes to physics is actually pretty solid, still all cars in rFactor 2 sometimes slide too much. But hey that´s my opinion. Overall I like everything, that mod, and the game. The Mazda should feel similar in some ways but heavy on the wheel. Check this and think about how the pilot (Johnny Herbert) struggles to handle it...but the car looks solid in the way. Other details that fails in most of simulators is how the gearbox react and the engine brake: Have a nice day.
+1 The car looks great! Most important for me is that physics and FFB are as close to the real thing as possible. Thanks for the hard work you guys put in this mod!
I think you need to understand things better before you go on rants. Firstly, none of us here have ever driven or will ever drive a Mazda 787B. None of us here know anything about how it really feels like. Some people go off videos which is good to a small degree but videos can be misleading. A twitch here or there which makes many think the car is always twitchy can be due to a driver over pushing or making mistakes, and not necessarily the car itself. By taking community feedback we are still the ones who determine how the physics will be made. The community feedback however will allow us to acquire more feedback on the physics just like we would with our beta testers. In a sense, the community would become our testers and their feedback would allow us to determine what we think is right and the direction we need to go. You seem to think the world is over and that we'll just listen to everyone out there and not make any decisions for ourselves. We do want this car to be the best sim-car sim-racers can find and drive on the web, we do want it to be as realistic as we can make it with the knowledge we have as well as the feedback we acquire from the community. Does that mean it will be bad because we allow the community to provide feedback and pick the best and logical feedback out of the bunch? No it doesn't. So don't be so quick to judge. I presume you have never raced a racing car in your life? have you at least ever driven a car? I too am tired of people's delusions of thinking every single racing game and race car needs to feel like its on ice. Anyone who has driven a racing car, let alone a real car, knows that icy feeling is not realistic. We aim to develop this car as good as we possibly can, as we do not have this car in our possession, we do not have its data, nor have we or will we ever get to drive it, we can only go so far with that realism, it will be our interpretation of the realism which is as far any modder can go.
I've said this before, but racing engineers spend their time trying to maximise the level of grip in thier cars whilst some in the sim racing community spend their time trying to minimise it
I stopped in and visited with a good friend who own and rebuilds Porsche racing cars earlier this week. He's currently in the process of restoring a 962, so the entire body is off the chassis. The cockpit is intact with all gauges in place. The engine is complete and on high-stands. If you guys need any pictures or data. Please let me know.
Though I don't agree about Lola, its Kevins idea that it is wrong AFAIK, I do agree that a mod shouldn't be based on what the majority of sim racing gamers love to play but rather what facts suggest. Engine back or front, rear or front or all wheel drive, weight to power ratio, size of wheels etc. I really dont think/want a mode to be based on wish statistics.
Yeah...Ben's cool. He worked for us as a mechanic before heading off to Porsche for factory training. He then spent the next five years running an independent race team as crew chief on the 962 and 959 before opening his own shop. Just happen to stop in last week as I was building a race engine so I returned the favor and had a beer, while we talked 'shop'.
While our model is complete, we would definitely love it if you could share photos. Being able to get close up hi res photos of the car's body in various areas as well as the cockpit etc will allow us to ensure that our model is as accurate as possible. So yes indeed, we would greatly appreciate any photos you can share. Thank you very much for offering such help.
You said it better than I did. Whether people like the mod should be completely immaterial unless of course the reason they don't like it is some obvious physics problem that supported with facts. That is all I am trying to say. I'll also add that this is yet another problem with pay mods. Modders who do what they do out of love for the car are not interested in how many people love it and will pay. They are more interested in people who sincerely share their interest in the real thing.
I agree that the car needs to be as accurately as possible in realism. And that's how we want people to like it. Maybe it was my initial post that didn't explain it right. Our aim is realism first and foremost, but how we get to that realism will depend on the feedback we get. Its not about making it fit the majority's driving style, having the majority like it is a combination of areas such as graphics, feel, immersion etc. But physics is going to be a toughy, while we'll use whatever real info we can acquire, we will have to make do with a lot of areas by trying to piece out the logical feedback we receive. By doing that, we can try to get the car as realistic as possible. But again, it will be hard because none of us have driven this car. Realism is of course the reason we do what we do at MAK-Corp, but that can only go so far especially on older cars like these which have far less data available to the general public. :/
