[Official] DX9 vs DX11 performance difference

Discussion in 'Technical & Support' started by 4thworld, May 4, 2017.

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  1. demerzel

    demerzel Registered

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    At one point. They will stop updating dx9. @Marcel Offermans said on the other day on discord.
     
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  2. stonec

    stonec Member

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    You should put post FX to None if you want to compare with DX9. DX9 had no post effects.
    Well explained. I may add that there are certain other improvements in DX11 version that costs FPS, such as ambient occlusion and somewhat better shadows. I think at this point we can't expect better performance from DX11 than DX9, unless the shaders are re-written. Hence I decided to buy a new GPU, I think performance improvements from here on will be limited.
     
  3. MaD_King

    MaD_King Registered

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    When I read this (and you are not the first to tell that), I'm not sure the things done by S397 are clear for all.
    In the DX11 beta build, S397 introduced the DX11 but also added new graphical features:
    - Improved MSAA rendering
    - Improved Clouds resolution and depth
    - Static AO;
    - Dynamic AO.
    - Shadows Normal renders shadows, taking into account the shadow receiver normal map.
    - New Car Ambient Shadow

    See here for more details.
    https://www.studio-397.com/2017/05/open-beta-with-directx-11-and-virtual-reality-support/

    So if you have same (or quite close) FPS between DX9 & DX11 with Post Effects = None, then you can be happy of that, because, you get more feature in DX11 than the DX9 version with no impact. And visually, the results is a huge better.

    And the bonus (visually speaking, but not in FPS) is the addition of Post Effects, that add Bloom and DOF blur, and that is hungry in FPS.

    So I hope I will not read again guy saying, DX11 is worse in FPS than DX9, because for me it's not the case, I have quite same FPS if I test with Post Effects = None, and I have a better rendering of the shadows/cloud, lights, ... in DX11 (and the texture look better for me in DX11)
     
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  4. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    If they move to Vulkan then this whole DX issue will be forfeit, and people who bought on the promise of not being discontinued will not have a problem. [/Perfect World]
     
  5. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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    The multi GPU improvement is not "up there" yet. Nevertheless, it is a progress.

    Parameters :
    - Setting at best/full even for shadows, except Anti Aliasing which is at Level 4 to match DX9
    - 20 AI + me* ( *AI driving too ) in race mode, so FPS will be slower
    - Cloudy sky, so FPS will be slower
    - SLI bits for DX11 is NONE ( all zeros )

    ===================================================

    Resolution 7680x1440 Multiview. 2 x GT1080Ti

    Silverstone, I do not consider this as an SLI gain ...........
    SLI vs single GPU - 7680x100 -DX11 - SilverstoneGT.JPG
    .
    Nola C, did get some SLI gain ....at least something
    SLI vs single GPU - 7680x1440 - DX11 - NOLA C.JPG


    ====================================================

    Resolution 2560x1440 . 2 x GT1080Ti . Post Effect MEDIUM.
    Capped on purpose to 120 FPS. Single GPU result look promising, so I was hoping by capping and using 2 way SLI at post effect medium, I can get near flat 120 FPS, but that is not the case unfortunately.
    SLI vs single GPU - 2560x1440 - PE MED - DX11 - Silverstone GT.JPG

    ==============================================
    Different cars different FPS ?
    Indeed

    Clio is "light" and GTR 500 2013 is "heavy", FPS wise. Silverstone GT.
    Different cars - different FPS - Silverstone - DX11 and DX9.JPG

    NOLA-C
    Different cars - different FPS - NOLA C - DX11 and DX9.JPG

    ================================================================

    Even at 2560x1440, different cars, different FPS.
    Parameters the same, setting at best/full even for shadows, except Anti Aliasing which is at Level 4 to match DX9

    Clio at Nola-C and SilverstoneGT, capped to 120FPS can maintain near flat 120FPS, but not GTR 500 2013
    2560x1440 - Different cars - different FPS - NOLA C - DX11  only.JPG

    2560x1440 - Different cars - different FPS - Silverstone GT - DX11  only.JPG

    These results are actually much better than 1 build ago, which in 2way SLI is actually like 5% lower FPS, but GPU loads both are 85-95%...weird.

    I think in 2 or 3 more DX11 multi GPU update, some good result will happen.

    End.
     
  6. Dady Cairo

    Dady Cairo Registered

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    Sorry,fore disturbing the discussion...but Admin means to move it here better.
    As i bought RF2 for my Laptop i January 2017,it was great. i hoped with updates it will even get better..but .....

    Dx11 content mixed with Dx9 content give unstable performance.
    Example: F1 1975 cars on a Dx11 Track like NOLA -worst FPS and stuttering.Same track with EVE F1 Cars 58-60 fps.Crahes of the AI cause stuttering.
    Settings: PP Low, No AA no FXAA,Res 1280x720, in game Grafix set to medium Shadows low,no refelections,no Blur,visible cars 15,opponents 14.
    It will End like GPL,the game was top,the Grafix less and you got to buy hardware for 3000 Euro,and then it will not run to satisfying yourself.
    60 fps is needed,i can pull down settings but on low,no,no,no...
    Sure RF2 has all,Dynamic weather,Nigth Race etc,but you can't play that on a medium computer.
    I prefer Automobilista,Assetto Corsa (also@1280x720 no AA DX11 title),and RaceRoom,wich all run on DX9.
    I wish the Developers hard luck,but i do not buy a brand new Laptop,wich i did in January even to play that Fu...RF2!
    And Automobilista looks GREAT!Even Raceroom on my machine.....Good they left their fingers from things,that they won't get right.
    My stand.
    A Sim ,written for DX9 and now in Dx11 and the 3rd pary tracks and cars in DX9,oh my GOD,maybe Christmas-half ready.
    PS.I speak of the unfinished DX11 Beta and i can't make a "real" test in cause of the resolution issue with fullscreen.Had to set resolution to nativ 1280x720p otherwiese no Fullscreen in this resolution.If someone has a similar Machine with better results,let me know what is possible.
    DC

    Specs:
    Lenovo Ideapad 700
    Pocessor:Intel i5 - 2.3 up to 3.2 MhzTurbo
    GFX:Nvidia 950 M (mobile) 4 GB
    Ram: 16 GB DDR-3
    HD:250 GB Samsung SSD
    System:Win 10 64 bit Home

    Just to compare...
    Thanx
    If you find misspelling Keep it by yourself....lol
     
  7. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    The reduction in latency was confirmed & much appreciated! Confirmed triple screen tool (Ctrl+=) is working with build 1944770. Fps are still not doing so well on the tougher track.

    settings: Level 4 AA, PPE=off, resolution 5760x1080 multiview, no sync, aggressive threads=off
    system: single GTX 1080, 8 GB VRAM; i7-4770 @3.4 GHz, 32 GB RAM
    view: cockpit camera
    weather: overcast

    Atlanta Motorsports Park, Cobra
    DX9, Avg 88 fps, Min 75 fps, Max 101 fps
    Build 1941092, Avg 82 fps (-7%), Min 72 fps (-4%), Max 94 fps (-7%)
    Build 1944770, Avg 83 fps (-6%), Min 72 fps (-4%), Max 95 fps (-6%)

    Palm Beach, Cobra
    DX9, Avg 109 fps, Min 100 fps, Max 122 fps
    Build 1941092, Avg 107 fps (-2%), Min 99 fps (-1%), Max 121 fps (-1%)
    Build 1944770, Avg 109 fps (-0%), Min 101 fps (+1%), Max 123 fps (+1%)
     

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    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  8. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @suryaprihadi The latest update mentions multi-GPU, but I don't think it means SLI. It's more about having a primary and secondary GPU, and being able to select which one you want in the game. Or something like that. If they were targeting an SLI improvement I'm sure they'd say SLI.

    @Dady Cairo There isn't really much difference between dx9 and dx11 content, as far as I know. 'Optimised for dx11' is mainly just about albedo textures (avoiding excessive bloom, better overall balance). There were also guidelines for texture sizing but I'm sure that would benefit both. There's definitely nothing you can do in dx11 (shaders etc) that makes it dx11 and not dx9 (which might make for some performance difference), at least with the standard shaders (?). But different content will perform differently, sometimes because of different authors, different development era, or just the nature of different content. Your CPU base speed is also potentially a concern, though again different content might have an influence there.
     
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  9. Daniele Vidimari

    Daniele Vidimari Registered

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    Could be an excessive bloom a reason for low performace with not optimized contents? I've noticed some stuttering with some not optimized tracks like Sebring or Adelaide.
     
  10. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I don't know enough about how bloom is calculated/done, but I suppose it's possible. And maybe that's why this thread instructs people to turn post processing off when comparing, so it's not an issue :)
     
  11. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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    aha...make sense.. thank you. No wonder there is only AUTO and my two cards only recognize as 1 model and quantity.
     
  12. Rony1984

    Rony1984 Registered

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  13. RS500

    RS500 Registered

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    GPU: AMD R9 270X
    OS: Win7 64bit
     

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    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  14. Findla22

    Findla22 Registered

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    GPU: R9 280
    OS: Win 10 Pro x64
    RAM: 16 GB

    DX9 vs DX11: DX11 is having more or less good fps, but they are little lower than DX9. The main difference is the post processing, I think it needs to be optimized because I loose about 30-40 fps from going to None to Low... I can't enable it and it hurts because post processing is the main graphical difference with DX11 build.
     
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  15. Wand Villela

    Wand Villela Registered

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    What profile are you using for DX11?

    My GPU2 is 10% always.
     
  16. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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    Wand,
    It was all bit zeros ( none ) for the DX11. Anyhow I already change GPU to GTX1080Ti, not the 980 anymore.
     
  17. Jon

    Jon Registered

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    I personally believe the best visual improvement would come from simply adjusting the colour pallette and lighting. It also comes with an added benefit: next to no performance impact. Bloom and DoF are really just icing on the cake, and really not needed during the race considering their impact on performance, although the DoF does really look amazing in replays, they've certainly nailed that especially when the car is blurred.

    Which reminds me, hopefully in future builds there'll add the ability to set up graphics independently; a graphics set up for replays and a separate one for races. If I remember correctly iRacing has this implemented.
     
  18. stonec

    stonec Member

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    I had a chance to borrow a GTX 1000 series GPU to compare the results with my older 600 series card and had a free day to perform various tests. Here are the observation I made

    Observation 1: PCIe Bus Usage % (reported by MSI Afterburner) is very high. This is same regardless of DX9 or DX11. Bus usage in most other games I tried hovers around 10%, in rF2 it approaches 50%. This tells me that a lot of traffic goes between the GPU and main RAM, which is a bit odd, as new GPU's have plenty of inbuilt VRAM and should be very good at minimizing the PCIe traffic, which can become a bottleneck.

    Bus usage.PNG

    Before today's tests, I had accidentally plugged my old GPU in the wrong PCIe slot, which only gave 8X speed. This cut rF2 FPS up to 30%, even though the Bus usage was "only" 60%. So anyone using PCIe 2.0, beware that if it's operating at reduced speed, it will cost massively. Same with PCIe 3.0 on more powerful cards if it's stuck on 8X.

    Observation 2: DX11 deficit is much bigger on Kepler generation GPU than on Pascal. Below are the charts comparing both cards with DX9 & DX11 on Silverstone with 20 other cars. DX11 deficit with Kepler is around 25% here, with Pascal it's less than 10%. The performance difference on the modern architecture I would call acceptable considering that image quality is better, but the 25% is a lot for anyone that owns an older GPU. Not sure what the status is with AMD, but traditionally AMD GPU's age less slowly than Nvidia, so maybe the situation is better there.

    rF2 charts.png
     
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  19. suryaprihadi

    suryaprihadi Registered

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    Nice one Stonec, on the Kepler vs Pascal architecture
    I googled to find more similar test and this is good reading too. Kepler vs Maxwell and that BUS use thingy.
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/graphics-performance-myths-debunked,3739-4.html#4

    I don't understand how one GPU architecture , over other architecture , prefer ( or do well ) for DX9 or DX11 games, but my
    VegasPro video editor has a nasty preference for old Kepler GPU, GTX580/570 for MP4 codec by MainConcept.
    Since 2012, I need to use GTX580 and not newer model, if I want to get fast rendering and high GPU load.
    2 way SLI dont work, even dual Kepler GPU like GTX690 wont work, only 1 GPU will get the load.
    However, Adobe works better with newer GPU, so I heard.

    So I think game developer themselves play a big role in how they develop their games to optimize DX9 or DX11 and/or newer GPUs.
     
  20. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I made a performance comparison regarding my slowdowns with the McLaren 650s GT3. All information about system, game and race settings are within the zips. I used the 650s vs the Fia F2 in DX11 and tested the 650s both in DX9 and DX11 allways with the same settings. There is definetly something with that car in DX11, that doesn't like my CPU.
     

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