[Official] DX9 vs DX11 performance difference

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patchedupdemon said:
Are you really suprised you get less fps in dx11 with a cpu that has a stock clock of 2.2ghz and that gpu,your hardware is obviously not up to the task of the extra horsepower dx11 requires.

I'd have thought with all your knowledge this performance drop wouldn't be a surprise to you,yes you have a i7 but those clocks are too low
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I am a mechanical engineer. I have no knowledge about CPU or GPU and I have never admitted so. My specs have been available from the very beginning. Nobody has ever mentioned my hardware specs to be the reason for fps drop.

You say that DX11 requires extra horsepower, so according to your theory everybody should notice a performance drop.

Please, enlighten us with your knowledge and quantify this extra horsepower. Which extra requirements does DX11 need?

You apparently didn't read any of my reports. I am quite sure that the fps drop is related to fullscreen not properly working and not to my specs.

Your theory does not explain that I get the same fps in all three video modes in DX11 and 30% more fps in fullscreen wrt borderless or windowed in DX9.
 
SPASKIS said:
No. It is the same build you quote. I simply noticed that my latest report was previous to latest reported DX11 update from July 7th. So I gave it a try!

BTW above results are using fullscreen and cockpit view. Changing to borderless/windowed reduces performance by 30% in DX9 and has no effect on DX11. For that reason I believe fullscreen is not properly working in DX11.
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So assuming your main issue is fullscreen not working in dx11, I don't think there's much point you posting about fps losses in dx11. You've already shown that in borderless/windowed you get better fps in dx11, which then removes any doubts about hardware etc giving you unusual results. You just don't seem to have working fullscreen.
 
Lazza said:
So assuming your main issue is fullscreen not working in dx11, I don't think there's much point you posting about fps losses in dx11. You've already shown that in borderless/windowed you get better fps in dx11, which then removes any doubts about hardware etc giving you unusual results. You just don't seem to have working fullscreen.
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https://forum.studio-397.com/index....formance-difference.55385/page-11#post-897871
In this post you can see the different behaviour of the three display modes when working on DX9 and DX11.

As you say, in DX11 I get an improvement for borderless and windowed wrt DX9. However I don't get higher values for fullscreen as I did with DX9. In DX11 the three modes show the same fps. That's why I presume Fullscreen behaving as if it was actually Borderless in DX11.

The fact that available resolutions and refresh frequencies are different between DX9 and DX11 also suggests that something's is not working as expected.
 
rFactor 2 DX11 switches to borderless window mode when you alt tab. There is fullscreen mode in dx11, it just don`t work properly.
However it is possible to play rFactor 2 DX11 in fullscreen mode if close or minimize all open apps, tick Auto Close Launcher in settings menu. ;)
 
These are my results with the last Build released at the end of July. Performance has never been so bad in DX11. 18% less than DX9.

dx9 vs dx11.png


patchedupdemon said:
Are you really suprised you get less fps in dx11 with a cpu that has a stock clock of 2.2ghz and that gpu,your hardware is obviously not up to the task of the extra horsepower dx11 requires.

I'd have thought with all your knowledge this performance drop wouldn't be a surprise to you,yes you have a i7 but those clocks are too low
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Clocks are very unimportant in rF2, tested at 4.8Ghz and at 1.4Ghz and the performance is pretty much the same.

7600k @4.8
Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg
17642, 270974, 44, 85, 65,106

7600k @ 3.4
Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg
17570, 270865, 44, 86, 64.866

7600k @ 2.2
Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg
17639, 274562, 44, 82, 64.244

7600k @ 1.4
Frames, Time (ms), Min, Max, Avg
17245, 270958, 42, 82, 63.645
 
Wouldn't that suggest a bottle neck then in systems where clock rates do not effect fps,I know iracing is very independent on clock frequency of cpu,why is rf2 different,I'm not challenging your claim just wanting to know more about it.

Edit just checked your sig,your gpu would suggest to me that it bottlenecks your cp,you have a great cpu but that gpu makes your system not balanced,it's stopping you getting the most out of your cpu,I've seen this too in iracing

check to see the loads on both cpu and gpu in while in game,if your cpu isnt running at high loads,your gpu is holding it back,maybe it is the game,but ive seen this too many time in iracing and everytime its the gpu holding back the cpu
 
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Mulero said:
These are my results with the last Build released at the end of July. Performance has never been so bad in DX11. 18% less than DX9.
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I can see that you have AMD RX 570 4GB which should run rFactor 2 in single screen fine and I haven't seen people who has AMD cards complaining much here in forums.
I know that you have been around a long time but I must ask if you are aware about fullscreen issue (My post #344) and how to run rFactor 2 in Borderless or fullscreen mode?
Yes I know that I am like a parrot but sometimes gaming is like sex and it is better to be safe then sorry :)
 
Ari Antero said:
rFactor 2 DX11 switches to borderless window mode when you alt tab. There is fullscreen mode in dx11, it just don`t work properly.
However it is possible to play rFactor 2 DX11 in fullscreen mode if close or minimize all open apps, tick Auto Close Launcher in settings menu. ;)
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I have Launcher Auto Close Selected and I don't have any open apps in the windows bar apart from rF2 itself. However I seem to be in permanent borderless mode.

Are you sure your method applies to every computer?
How can I effectively know whether I am in FullScreen or Borderless?
 
SPASKIS said:
I have Launcher Auto Close Selected and I don't have any open apps in the windows bar apart from rF2 itself. However I seem to be in permanent borderless mode.

Are you sure your method applies to every computer?
How can I effectively know whether I am in FullScreen or Borderless?
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Well, I can not know how and which apps people are using but 3 PC`s I have to test with, Launcher Auto Close or alt + tab is working fine, how you can test if you are in Borderless or Fullscreen I don`t know.
With 1080Ti Borderless vs fullscreen DX11 I am not able to see any performance difference, fps is equal. 780Ti and 680 has about 15% lower performance in borderless mode. @stonec mentioned that Kepler GPU he tested had 15% FPS lost vs Pascal GPU. With my Kepler GPU`s performance is 10-15% when game is in Borderless DX11. Fullscreen mode Pascal vs Kepler has no performance lost DX9 vs DX11 with hardware I own.
However I am not happy when game does not work proper in fullscreen mode simply becourse Windowed/Borderless is running trough OS Syncbuffer causing input lag,stutters etc. and it is logical that I7-6950X , 10 core, 20 threads at 5,4 ghz, DDR4@3000mhz with 1080Ti has equal performance with Borderless and fullscreen DX11 but 680/I7-3770k and 780Ti/I7-4770k are struggling when game is in borderless DX11 mode.

;)
 
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Ari Antero said:
I can see that you have AMD RX 570 4GB which should run rFactor 2 in single screen fine and I haven't seen people who has AMD cards complaining much here in forums.
I know that you have been around a long time but I must ask if you are aware about fullscreen issue (My post #344) and how to run rFactor 2 in Borderless or fullscreen mode?
Yes I know that I am like a parrot but sometimes gaming is like sex and it is better to be safe then sorry :)
Click to expand...

I do not know if it's good or bad but I'm not having any changes in any way (fullscreen, borderless, windowed) by pressing alt + tab. FPS are always the same, 91 in pits, except when you see the image of rF2 but still on the desktop that goes down to 30FPS.

Performance is not bad in general to be rF2, which has always been a great devourer of resources ... Lowering something is kept at all times above 60 FPS and once advanced the race does not usually fall below 90 FPS. With a 144hz monitor and freesync the fluidity is excellent. What bothers me is that in DX11 the yield is 20% lower with the same configuration when at least it should be the same.

I hope all these months without news bring some improvements in this section with the new build. The current requirements for playing DX11 are tremendously disproportionate.
 
Yeah, fullscreen vs windowed mode shouldn't cause any FPS drops, I think the -30% that @SPASKIS gets in DX9 is an anomaly with DX9. The FPS should be the same because the desktop isn't actively causing a big load for modern GPUs, otherwise nobody would use windowed/borderless. The only difference with borderless and fullscreen for me is that FPS is a bit more smooth and less input lag due to game not running through Windows desktop buffer. But FPS stays the same.

I think DX11 just fundamentally is 20% or so slower at the moment with AMD and older Nvidia generations. So if you want similarish performance to DX9, it seems only way to achieve it at the moment is to buy a GTX 900 or 1000 series GPU. Partly lack of performance is explained by Ambient Occlusion and slightly better shadows in DX11, which are new features that you cannot turn off.
 
@stonec have you edited Windows visual effects? I haven't done that with any of my PC`S which could be explanation why I have FPS drop when borderless mode with my 680/780Ti?
 
@stonec I haven't compared recently, but a year or two ago I found around a 10% difference in FPS when changing from fullscreen to windowed (borderless). It's always been a battle between being able to alt-tab freely (for motec and admin stuff, especially during/after qual) and the slightly better FPS (and general smoothness, yes, but I was hovering around 55-60fps so that extra 10% could make a big difference too, as it can then reach the screen refresh rate).

Besides, @SPASKIS has shown an FPS increase from Dx9 -> Dx11 in windowed mode. So either the drop in dx9 is unexpected (not my personal experience, but I'll yield to the majority if that's the case), or his dx11 is underperforming in fullscreen. One thing's for sure - he can't both be getting a global drop in performance in dx11 due to his hardware, and have better fps in windowed mode with it.
 
@Ari Antero (or someone else).
Could you benchmark fullscreen vs borderless both in dx9 and dx11 to see if the results are different from mine?

@Lazza reports 10% drop in dx9. DX11?
I report 30% drop in dx9. 0% drop in DX11.
 
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@SPASKIS Test is made with I7-4770k, 780Ti two-way SLI. It is huge task to me remove second card becourse all my old PC`s are water cooled. I make new test with this PC and single card when new build is released. I don`t see any point to test with I7-6950X, 1080Ti three-way SLI, perhaps I make test later with single 1080Ti.

All in-game settings are max, no AA, single screen res. 2560x1080

DX9 Borderless:
2017-10-12 07:41:23 - rFactor2
Frames: 29843 - Time: 126531ms - Avg: 235.855 - Min: 178 - Max: 297

DX9 Fullscreen:
2017-10-12 07:46:40 - rFactor2
Frames: 32261 - Time: 127078ms - Avg: 253.868 - Min: 174 - Max: 332

DX11 Borderless:
2017-10-12 08:00:25 - rFactor2
Frames: 30295 - Time: 120703ms - Avg: 250.988 - Min: 226 - Max: 293

DX11 Fullscreen:
2017-10-12 08:05:15 - rFactor2
Frames: 36507 - Time: 126438ms - Avg: 288.734 - Min: 257 - Max: 349

:)
 
Ari Antero said:
@SPASKIS Test is made with I7-4770k, 780Ti two-way SLI. It is huge task to me remove second card becourse all my old PC`s are water cooled. I make new test with this PC and single card when new build is released. I don`t see any point to test with I7-6950X, 1080Ti three-way SLI, perhaps I make test later with single 1080Ti.

All in-game settings are max, no AA, single screen res. 2560x1080

DX9 Borderless:
2017-10-12 07:41:23 - rFactor2
Frames: 29843 - Time: 126531ms - Avg: 235.855 - Min: 178 - Max: 297

DX9 Fullscreen:
2017-10-12 07:46:40 - rFactor2
Frames: 32261 - Time: 127078ms - Avg: 253.868 - Min: 174 - Max: 332

DX11 Borderless:
2017-10-12 08:00:25 - rFactor2
Frames: 30295 - Time: 120703ms - Avg: 250.988 - Min: 226 - Max: 293

DX11 Fullscreen:
2017-10-12 08:05:15 - rFactor2
Frames: 36507 - Time: 126438ms - Avg: 288.734 - Min: 257 - Max: 349

:)
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Thanks for these results Ari.
As I expected, there is difference in favour of fullscreen in both DX9 and DX11.

This would "confirm" that my system is running in Borderless when set to fullscreen in DX11 considering I get exactly the same fps in both modes. I measure a huge 30% difference between them in DX9.
 
I do not understand anything. I returned to DX9 to do the test with the Borderless mode and the first surprise has been that the FPS were a little lower than I remembered. I have changed the settings I use to perform the benckmark (max) and woooowwww ..... The performance drop since the last time I tested in DX9 is 30% less.

Early thoughts were that it was a problem in my end, but after several tests results have always been the same. The performance drop has only been in the DX9 version of rF2, in the rest of games and the DX11 version of rF2 the performance is the same as always.

Second surprise came when trying in Borderless mode, FPS were higher than in Fullscreen mode. And when I returned to DX11 to perform the test, the result was the same, more FPS in Borderless mode than in Fullscreen, when yesterday they were exactly the same.

As I said .... I do not understand anything. :(

chart.png
 
Mulero said:
I do not understand anything. I returned to DX9 to do the test with the Borderless mode and the first surprise has been that the FPS were a little lower than I remembered. I have changed the settings I use to perform the benckmark (max) and woooowwww ..... The performance drop since the last time I tested in DX9 is 30% less.

Early thoughts were that it was a problem in my end, but after several tests results have always been the same. The performance drop has only been in the DX9 version of rF2, in the rest of games and the DX11 version of rF2 the performance is the same as always.

Second surprise came when trying in Borderless mode, FPS were higher than in Fullscreen mode. And when I returned to DX11 to perform the test, the result was the same, more FPS in Borderless mode than in Fullscreen, when yesterday they were exactly the same.

As I said .... I do not understand anything. :(

View attachment 10440
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When things appear illogical the best is to repeat the tests. Beware of Windows 10!!!. Check all affecting settings. Sometimes Murphy changes them!
Try to do things exactly the same. Use preferably cockpit view and avoid TV views. I have found inconsistent fps with it.
 
Mulero said:
I do not understand anything. I returned to DX9 to do the test with the Borderless mode and the first surprise has been that the FPS were a little lower than I remembered. I have changed the settings I use to perform the benckmark (max) and woooowwww ..... The performance drop since the last time I tested in DX9 is 30% less.

Early thoughts were that it was a problem in my end, but after several tests results have always been the same. The performance drop has only been in the DX9 version of rF2, in the rest of games and the DX11 version of rF2 the performance is the same as always.

Second surprise came when trying in Borderless mode, FPS were higher than in Fullscreen mode. And when I returned to DX11 to perform the test, the result was the same, more FPS in Borderless mode than in Fullscreen, when yesterday they were exactly the same.

As I said .... I do not understand anything. :(

View attachment 10440
Click to expand...
Windows ten had an update the other day for me,did yours update today
 
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