Le Mans Virtual 24 hours 2023, Verstappen rages

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AlexHeuskat, Jan 15, 2023.

  1. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    Blaming has become a sport with many participants competing at a high level. I would say some have even stopped simracing to completely dedicate themselves to this new sport. There might be no post in this forum that hasn't become a blaming competition, no matter what the oroginal topic was, be it bug fixing, new content, content udpates, etc. Some people just don't love simracing as much as they love putting someone else down. This is the sign of the social networks era.
     
  2. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    I think many people is noticing this, iRacing might be loosing credibility, and iRacing fans getting a bad reputation of elitist immature kids.
     
  3. MikeV710

    MikeV710 Registered

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    Reminds me of the song "video killed the radio star". But yeah I agree. You unleash a bomb on social media, and It´s worst then being on the news! There´s no real way of stopping social media, It´s practically uncontrollable and quite manipulated for a purpose by those who know how.
     
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  4. MikeV710

    MikeV710 Registered

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    Not to sure about that. It was Initially presented as a stepping stone to ArmA 4 yes, BUT was also advertised that It would continue as It´s own game and would get supported after EA. Then In the Initial fiasco (release), they started calling It a "tech-demo" and people started to feel ripped off. There was a lot of haze In BI´s Initial description of AR which caused a lot of confusion. I even think It was done on purpose.

    But sorry, going totally off-topic now as this has no more weight on the discussion.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2023
  5. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Btw, I have nothing against iRacing per se. It's a decent platform as anything out there and well worth a try if you want to waste some money. What makes it a bit annoying recently is that some - or the majority but hopefully not all (because I hate generalizations) iRacing fans seem to have a huge problem with how "their" events are called. And in their mind it's a no-go that other publishers have the right to run exclusive events that they payed money for - simply to use the official name, layouts, commentators, content and everything - because iRacers have payed money for the official events in the past so it's a godgiven right that only iRacing fans should have that opportunity. And now that their events aren't officialy sanctioned anymore they truly believe due to some YTers that their events aren't the same events anymore, while Indycar and ACO clearly allow iRacing to host their own events. And I am not just ripping this out of my cutest but it's literaly every second post claiming how this or that wouldn't have happened in iRacing and that MSG is at fault due to their exclusive licence. I just skimmed a bit through the mentioned JB iRacing Le Mans video and it didn't take long for me to notice heavy warping issues. Good luck with that while having door to door action through the Porsche curves. Noone is stopping those big channel hosters or wealthy people like Max Verstappen to host their own event. Problem is, this takes effort.
     
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  6. Owlpen

    Owlpen Registered

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    I read all the posts and made a list of suggestions made by forum participants.

    -Update User Guide.
    -AI drive car during disconnection. With configuration options on the server.
    -Warning of high latency, for the pilot to take some action.
    -Realistic collision model.
    -Big events to be held on LAN (especially with real pilots)
    -Solutions for DDoS attacks
    -Yellow cars (Could be a default skin)
    -Make the camera view smoother (To look more real)
    -Kill bugs

    Interesting that no one mentioned a specific bug that causes a problem in multiplayer. I'm not saying it's perfect, problems still exist like Stuttering, but given the commitment to development we've seen over the last year, it's to be expected that it will be resolved soon.

    PS: The rF2 logo remember me a Phoenix Bird ;)
     
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  7. CeeBee

    CeeBee Registered

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  8. Goanna

    Goanna Registered

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  9. Navigator

    Navigator Registered

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    Well, isn't it so that rF2 is a sinking ship?
    I mean; in the beginning they got away with "its still Beta!" and that alone lasted way to long......
    Bugs from the very first build are still present(!)
    We ask for bug-fixes: "here is a new car you can BUY".
    We ask again: "here is the 15th new UI!"

    People and companies have jumped ship, the ship is sinking and the ones left behind are taking everything of it.
    They know its going nowhere, so why not make the most money with a lot of content and stop support in a while?!

    They have forgotten where they came from and what made rF big: the community.
    You wanted to have rF1 and you could download even a driving toilet bowl.
    Now, its getting more and more impossible for modders to make a proper mod although rF acts like they support modding.
    They actually don't; they just want to sell their own stuff and make the last bit of money.

    So, a game where no (real, important) bugs are fixed? > F1 series fi.
    A game where you can drive different cars and pay for any addition? > Almost ALL!

    More and more people start to realise this and so the water is IN the ship.
    No need to spend money in bug-fixes, just press out those last cars and tracks and make money!
     
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  10. Lizardfolk

    Lizardfolk Registered

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    I've seen this said around the various different social platforms and it's starting to bother me because I feel like it's riling people up more based on a narrative that is fundamentally untrue. I have no idea whether this narrative was crafted in bad faith or there's a sincere misunderstanding as I don't expect rF2 players to understand the inner workings of the iRacing community. And yes, that is me, I'm from that community.

    Hello, it's Lizard, your friendly neighborhood iRacer. I'm saying this to admit that I have a bias but I'm here in good faith because I'm joining an rF2 IndyCar league and giving this sim a sincere shake. In fact, I bought rF2 back in 2013... only decided to reinstall early this month before this maelstrom kicked off so I'm doing my best to post in good faith and engage with you rF2 players.

    You are going to run across pretentious and entitled iRacers who feel that the official name of every motorsports should be attached to their platform. These people exist, I do not deny that. But these are an incredibly tiny group of people to the point where they are the equivalent of maybe just a handful of troll accounts.

    The vast majority of iRacers are upset not because they don't get to call their events the official events of Le Mans or IndyCar or whatever, it's because these exclusive deals stop iRacing from putting on events that are similar in nature to these events that MSG has signed and given to rF2. As someone that is embedded in the iRacing community and is in a big iRacing team, the vast majority of reactions to news of exclusivity against iRacing is "ok, who cares if we don't get to call it the "official" Le Mans or IndyCar". But then iRacing quickly updates their internal policies where events that are hosted by them have to fully stop. This is what iRacers are upset about. It's not that they can't call their version of the 24 hours of Le Mans the official name, it's because iRacing can't put on those events at all anymore because these exclusivity deals have a clause that says iRacing can't put on events officially (meaning either in their competitive system or as a big special event) for their own community, that are "similar in nature" to the series and events that have been signed away from them.

    That's why iRacing hasn't had an official "The France 24 Hours" or whatever. Because they can't put on a race officially in any capacity. Sure, individual leagues can still put on a 24 Hour race at the Le Mans track and even still call it Le Mans because it's a private event. But most iRacers play the game to practice and run their official events so for a vast majority of the player base, it's one big event that's near and dear to sim racers that won't be run in an official server capacity. Not to mention this disappears from their CS.

    The recent IndyCar deal was much worse and goes a step further. Not only has the Indy 500 been removed from iRacing's official special events calendar, but iRacing cannot put official races of the IR18, DW12, or IR05 on tracks that host an IndyCar race. This is the "likeness" clause of the exclusivity deal written in an even more strict capacity and this has caused the community, who have loved to run official server races with the IR18 at Laguna Seca, Watkins Glen, and most if the iRacing ovals, to forcibly abandon their favorite car on their favorite tracks.

    This deal has also reached into the private community section as well, as the IR18, DW12, and IR05 are banned by iRacing from being broadcasted by private leagues. Why do you think I've decided to reinstall rF2? Because all my iRacing IndyCar leagues that I've run for the past 2-3 years have now shut down because of the news. Because iRacing said they will enforce the clause against them that iRacing cannot "represent IndyCar in any similar capacity". Here is a screenshot from an iRacing broadcasting discord:

    [​IMG]

    The last point and this one is a more abstract one. The exclusivity deals lock iRacing from building content of the series that have signed away from them. iRacing have historically had a hard time getting access to cars and tracks that they don't have a deal with the official series. I don't know why that is, there's a lot of speculation around that. But iRacing had plans to return to Le Mans and get the Bugatti circuit for their game, that's scrapped because of the deal. iRacing is quite literally not welcomed according to the ACO. IndyCar is a similar story, iRacing has spent a long time trying to negotiate access to street courses such as St. Pete for their game. With the recent IndyCar license, that is now no longer a possibility.

    You can even see it in the Automobilista 2 forums that the exclusivity deal that MSG has signed has actually made AMS2 cancel their "fictional" version of the IR18. AMS2 wasn't even going to call it the IR18 or the IndyCar and yet MSG has stepped in and forced them to shelve that project.

    [​IMG]

    This does not mean that I excuse my fellow iRacer's behavior towards rF2 players. And you can still believe after all this that iRacers are babies.

    But what I do hope to demonstrate is that the feeling that people have from that community (and to a lesser extent AMS2's community) is not over merely just "what they get to call their events". It quite literally dictates and effects what iRacing players can't run in their official servers and, with the case of IndyCar, what private leagues can't do with the IR18, DW12, or IR05 and IndyCar tracks. Just writing this out already makes me a little mad internally, but my only motivation with this post is to outline the situation fully and dispel incorrect rumors or narratives of why our communities have this infighting.

    It's not just over what other sims get to call their special events. If it was only down to naming and branding, and nothing else changed. Quite literally the vast majority of people on that side wouldn't care.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
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  11. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Lizardfolk according to Paul Jeffrey (rF2 staff member), this "blocking of similar events" isn't true.

    Anywhere that says it is, I would question their source/veracity.


    @Lizardfolk some discord shots as some sort of proof, discord has plenty of people in it so I'm taking this as shareable statements...

    upload_2023-1-17_17-32-55.png

    upload_2023-1-17_17-33-18.png


    Now, without wanting to inflame anything, if these 2 people aren't lying, you'd have to question what iRacing is doing.
     
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  12. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    There are all sorts of business reasons why some things are exclusive, but the real reason is:
     
  13. Lizardfolk

    Lizardfolk Registered

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    The iRacing staff themselves have alluded to that they cannot put on events that are similar in nature to the Indy 500 and the actual series.

    [​IMG]

    I don't want to point fingers. But here's what I know as someone that have run iRacing's IndyCar leagues. Most of them have shut down and iRacing special events do not have an "Indy 500" that they are calling it something else. It's just removed entirely and they have alluded to it being because of contracts and deals signed away from them.

    With the community leagues, I have no idea if any broadcasters have actively been banned by iRacing for broadcasting an IndyCar league with Indy 500 and IndyCar tracks. No one I know from iRacing wants to risk their account to try and find out the hard way.

    All I know is, my favorite car on my favorite tracks are disappearing from community events and private leagues. That's upsetting for me and people like me.
     
  14. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Bearing in mind my above shots were in the Le Mans discussion, so I don't know if that's handled differently to the indycar. But if iRacing says they can't do Le Mans, and MSG says they could (just named differently), we (the users) can either take a side and battle to the death, or ask and wait for clarification? Maybe?

    But... it's the internet!
     
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  15. Lizardfolk

    Lizardfolk Registered

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    Ah I see. The Le Mans deal was a long time ago and I dont remember specific staff communications on why they have removed any virtual WEC / ACO endurance official events.

    With the IndyCar stuff, it's more directly alluded to that the community needs to move away from IR18 with official tracks and they have removed the Indy 500. Just expressing from personal experience, my iRacing team is an IndyCar focused team, and they would have started preparing for a setup and practicing the Indy 500 now and they are all gutted they can't do it officially. And again, most iRacing community run IndyCar leagues are shutting down... So I think the IndyCar stuff is much more iron fisted.

    How would you explain Reiza saying that they need to remove the "fictional" IR18 from their game because of MSG's exclusivity? The screenshot I posted is from the Reiza themselves.
     
  16. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    This is where I respectfully (honestly!) say, "wtf? Do I look like their spokesperson?"

    We're in a thread on LMV, I posted what I think is relevant info in that context. I don't have anything on the others, and I'm not going to start guessing.
     
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  17. Lizardfolk

    Lizardfolk Registered

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    Ok, well I appreciate you showing screenshots and expressing the rF2 side civilly. Again, I've only recently dipped my toes into the rF2 side of things, all I know is what iRacers/AMS2 players have been told by staff and what iRacers players themselves are reacting to based on changes in their official events and CS system. (As well as Reiza cancelling the IR18 for AMS2).

    We (iRacers and AMS2 players) are mad for (what I feel) are good reasons. It's not just because of naming! I'm confident to say we honestly wouldn't care if we get to run these beloved events and they were just called something fictional, but that's not what's happening. There's some sort of ban on that side on such events. (And the ban is different in strictness between 24 Le Mans and IndyCar stuff).

    Is it possible someone is lying to us over there? Yes, possible. I don't know the full details and I'm not iRacing themselves. It's very possible there's some funny political games being played but I'm not about to go pointing fingers on who is acting in very bad faith and outright lying.

    Quick anecdote... I for one was looking forward to a Bugatti layout of the Le Mans track before the deal happened...
     
  18. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    For what it's worth, and I'm not across this any more than indicated by the above, there is rather predictably an rF2 bias here (this forum) - I mean, if that's going to happen anywhere, it's here - and I'm sure I'm far from alone in seeing that. To some extent these things just have to run their course, you can't correct everything that everyone says or stop them saying things in a more forceful fashion than we ourselves might.
     
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  19. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    This story remind me the husband that discover his wife cheating him, .... and get mad with the plumber and not with the wife.

    If Iracing really got his permissions "ripped off" then maybe they signed poor contracts back then that didn't take account for future competitors on the market, or maybe they did, and went home with some juicy compensation from the termination of contract.
    Maybe the made a political choice and let those licenses go.
    There can be a lot of reasons, the only ones I can't believe is that they could not afford the price anymore, or that they had a gun pointed.
    But getting mad a MSG (or RF2) for scoring a deal, without breaking the law apparently, is a bit blind decision.
     
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  20. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    @Lizardfolk I appreciate the insight into the IndyCar iRacing community. My conclussion is that licenses suck. Anyone should be able to create any content with or without official endorsement and we would all benefit. But someone only complains when licenses are against them, not when they benefit them. I still think many iRacing users are crying babies, and that may include some influencing youtubers, but of course, not everyone.
     
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