Le Mans Virtual 24 hours 2023, Verstappen rages

[stonec]

This sucks so much that after years, 24h race still can't be done without issues. Actual LeMans in 2020 was rather amazing though, although even that had a couple of maintanence resets iiric. Was it really some kind of attack on servers, or was it just some errors happening ? This is very unfortunate, because it seems like fixing this stuff sucks a ton of resources of development, I can't imagine how complex it can be.

Those were not "maintenance resets". As far as I remember, there were two red flags in the 2020 event, both with around 30 minutes of resetting the grid. That was clearly a game glitch as the same thing had been happening in the pre-races. With enough time and enough people joining, disconnecting and driver swapping, the bug was eventually triggered. After that S397 did fix some online bugs and it seems the 2022 event went a bit better, but with a history of issues that were clearly game online code related, it's not surprising that many are pointing their fingers at rF2.

 

[stonec]

@Navigator: You are right that not all drivers have to be IT experts. But at that level of competition I expect a high end team like Red Line to have an expert for hardware and software related issues, if that much money is at stake, a person who can tell the drivers how things work and where potential issues are. In F1 they call them engineers, so people like Max should be familiar with the concept. I also expect them to read the rules so that drivers are aware of what can happen and how to react accordingly. At the end it's all a matter of preparation as in real motorsport. I mean, how does it come that a guy like Simon Pagenaud swaps whole sim rigs during a race while, Max Verstappen doesn't know that using WIFI isn't a 100 % reliable way to connect to an MP server? And now don't bring the this-is-all-just-fun-argument, because it obviously isn't if big manufacturers invest that much time and money to bring their best drivers and teams to the race. What get's ignored a bit in this whole discussion is that we are talking about top level sim racing here and not some backyard bobby car racing.This isn't just average gaming anymore.

You shouldn't need to be an IT expert or hire ones to take part in a sim racing event, even a 24 hour one. Esports and computing have come a long way since the early days where you basically had to be tech oriented to become involved in PC sim racing at all. Nowadays end users don't want to spend time configuring parameters and adjusting dozens of settings to make sure a game runs right. Not even server admins want to do that any longer, which is why everything moved to the cloud. It's the way all major software operates these days. The end user, especially if a consumer, is interested in the service/content itself and 99% likely doesn't want to fiddle with technical details.

Of course it could be that something is wrong on Max's end, but even here hardware/software has improved. I've participated in sim racing events on WiFi for over a decade without getting booted once due to WiFi glitches. There is so much more going on on the server side than on the client side during such an event that I'd be surprised client-side issues were a big factor unless your computer literally freezes or you have an extraordinarily bad connection.

It's also generally bad for sim racing if the image is that you need technical expertise to run in such events. That will only put the bar for entry even higher and sim racing already has a problem with that people seem to think it's an elite sport that requires some super expensive equipment, which drives people to other esports.

 

[EricW]

The average IPS deliver a fairly shit modem, even the most expensive options with Wifi are cheap mass delivery contract crap devices.
That has little to do with needing a IT university grade to figure out how to establish a reliable internet connection.
Apart from ISP refresh activities and bandwidth variations you have to be a complete noob to understand that using a wireless connection for such a occasion is just plain stupid.
I'm even sure nobody used a WiFi connection, and if they did it's a story of natural selection.

 

[hitm4k3r]

You shouldn't need to be an IT expert or hire ones to take part in a sim racing event, even a 24 hour one. Esports and computing have come a long way since the early days where you basically had to be tech oriented to become involved in PC sim racing at all. Nowadays end users don't want to spend time configuring parameters and adjusting dozens of settings to make sure a game runs right. Not even server admins want to do that any longer, which is why everything moved to the cloud. It's the way all major software operates these days. The end user, especially if a consumer, is interested in the service/content itself and 99% likely doesn't want to fiddle with technical details.

Of course it could be that something is wrong on Max's end, but even here hardware/software has improved. I've participated in sim racing events on WiFi for over a decade without getting booted once due to WiFi glitches. There is so much more going on on the server side than on the client side during such an event that I'd be surprised client-side issues were a big factor unless your computer literally freezes or you have an extraordinarily bad connection.

It's also generally bad for sim racing if the image is that you need technical expertise to run in such events. That will only put the bar for entry even higher and sim racing already has a problem with that people seem to think it's an elite sport that requires some super expensive equipment, which drives people to other esports.

You are watching at this event from an average consumer perspective and at that point I would to some extend agree with you. Eventhough the tendency with the most popular sim softwares has shifted towards a less-is-more approach that brought us fantastic sims like AC that are stripped down to the barebones of what one should be able to do with a real racing sim - and most sim racers seem to enjoy the lack of options - I still consider simulation software - no matter if flight sims, train sims or in this case racings sims - to be a bit more tech orientated. Just taking a look at the possible assignments for keybindings within rF2 should give you an idea that you need quite a bit more technical knowledge than some average PC users who just use a browser and YT. The gamification and streamlining of sim software has lead to this impression, that one shouldn't have to be an IT expert, but there is only so much you can do until a complex piece of software like rF2 exhibits an issue. And at that point it's not so much about fixing every little bug in the software, even if that's my wet dream, but to offer possible solutions to workaround issues.

This is the top level of sim racing on all possible fronts. Going by your logic F1 teams shouldn't need an engineer to go car racing, because that's essentially what they are doing. But they do it, to gain an advantage, to be well prepared for everything that comes their way and to anticipate the future outcome of their desicions. And like it or not, the same happens in top level e-sports. Simon Pagenaud didn't swap his sim rig because he just had a second one laying around. He faced an issue and he solved it on his own. Story of my life in sim racing

 

[Sergitroon]

Max is a kid hasn't grown up playing games from 20/30 years ago that were shit compared to what we can play now and we didn't cry we just enjoyed.

 

[Travis]

Official statement is there was no "malicious" attack: https://www.studio-397.com/2023/01/le-mans-virtual-2023-statement/

We are aware that the IP addresses of the servers were inadvertently made public, and we observed unusual levels of traffic during the event, combined with logging of some concerning events taking place during this period. We are not aware of a malicious attack, but will be implementing new procedures to ensure that in future our servers are robustly defended. The use of direct IP addresses for access to multiplayer sessions is clearly not an ideal solution, and we take full responsibility for any inadvertent distribution to non-participants – we are actively working on new processes to allow only permitted users and prevent similar issues in the future.

Let's hope lessons are learnt and the 2024 event is as free of issues as possible.

 

[Anto870]

Official statement is there was no "malicious" attack: https://www.studio-397.com/2023/01/le-mans-virtual-2023-statement/

We are aware that the IP addresses of the servers were inadvertently made public, and we observed unusual levels of traffic during the event, combined with logging of some concerning events taking place during this period. We are not aware of a malicious attack, but will be implementing new procedures to ensure that in future our servers are robustly defended. The use of direct IP addresses for access to multiplayer sessions is clearly not an ideal solution, and we take full responsibility for any inadvertent distribution to non-participants – we are actively working on new processes to allow only permitted users and prevent similar issues in the future.

Let's hope lessons are learnt and the 2024 event is as free of issues as possible.

Did anyone really believe the fairy tale of the DDoS attack? How much ignorance...

 

[Lazza]

Does anyone read past the headlines anymore?

@Travis the 'official statement', if you want to read it and make your own summary, is they're not aware of a malicious attack. That is different to saying there wasn't one.

Semantics, excuses, whatever, I don't care. People coming into this from either side will just look for things that agree with their already established viewpoint. Go tear strips off each other over at reddit or something...

 

[Travis]

@Lazza I read the entire statement and quoted the relevent text for people who stated a DDoS had occured. Not interested in arguements as my post history indicates.

 

[davehenrie]

I read it as they were flooded with additional connections due to poor security on their part, but whether it was a deliberate assault, or a wave of online followers, the result was the same. More connections than the hosts expected or planned for.

 

[Lazza]

@Lazza I read the entire statement and quoted the relevent text for people who stated a DDoS had occured. Not interested in arguements as my post history indicates.

Right. So why not say so? (no confirmation of a DDoS - heck, tag the people saying for sure there was while you're at it)

Instead, you just misrepresent the statement.

 

[Travis]

Instead, you just misrepresent the statement.

What? You are OTT with your comments. I've not gloated about the issue or gleefully mentioned other sim racing online events and even included that I hoped the Le Mans 2024 event goes well.

I include a quote from S397 and I linked to the updated article/statement which no one else had done. Back to steath mode on here as it's often not worth posting here if some want to act like rF2 is their code.

 

[Owen Pyrah]

Official statement is there was no "malicious" attack: https://www.studio-397.com/2023/01/le-mans-virtual-2023-statement/

We are aware that the IP addresses of the servers were inadvertently made public, and we observed unusual levels of traffic during the event, combined with logging of some concerning events taking place during this period. We are not aware of a malicious attack, but will be implementing new procedures to ensure that in future our servers are robustly defended. The use of direct IP addresses for access to multiplayer sessions is clearly not an ideal solution, and we take full responsibility for any inadvertent distribution to non-participants – we are actively working on new processes to allow only permitted users and prevent similar issues in the future.

Let's hope lessons are learnt and the 2024 event is as free of issues as possible.

Sounds promising doesn't it.

Whilst we have made significant improvements and bug fixes to the multiplayer code of the game in recent years, we are clearly still experiencing problems with legacy low-level networking code. Naturally, this is an unacceptable situation for any multiplayer environment, and we are committed to rewriting this code over the coming months to ensure a better experience for all players.

Love it when something goes wrong in an event (that I had no involvement with) and everyone gets to benefit from improvements as a result.

I remember after lawnmowergate at Spa thinking hopefully big Dave will finally take a look at that bloody tyre model of his. There wasn't the fundamental improvement you'd have liked, but the bandaid fix was at least a step in the right direction. Though that 'just reset the surface temp after a few seconds below X speed' fix for the brake dragging benefited no one. Outside of trying to control for the exploit I mean.

But in this case, hopefully rF2 will end up with a rock solid connection. I can't remember people complaining about server issues before, but it does seem like every man and his dog is now saying they're getting disconnects all the time. Or maybe it was Real Road 2 that put some more stress on it..

 

[EricW]

There's a distinct difference between slaughter, criticism and feedback.
Next to that, there's a difference in who comes out with it, and what influence it has.
It's clear as it is and the impact has been substantial.
Now we are at a stage of where do people find the need to rub more salt in a wound by judging and questioning statements?
It's up to individuals to find enjoyment in that or not.
That's what's basically going on.
Meanwhile I enjoy driving my favourite pretend cars in my favourite simulators.

 

[davehenrie]

There's a distinct difference between slaughter, criticism and feedback.
Next to that, there's a difference in who comes out with it, and what influence it has.
It's clear as it is and the impact has been substantial.
Now we are at a stage of where do people find the need to rub more salt in a wound by judging and questioning statements?
It's up to individuals to find enjoyment in that or not.
That's what's basically going on.
Meanwhile I enjoy driving my favourite pretend cars in my favourite simulators.

PRETEND!!!???? I'll 'Pretend' I didn't see that.....