Latest Roadmap Update - September 2017

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Christopher Elliott, Sep 26, 2017.

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  1. Jon

    Jon Registered

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    I also agree with what you said, but you completely misunderstood me when I said the price of the game is irrelevant. The price of the game is perfectly reasonable in my opinion, and I fully support DLC, even if I wouldn't myself buy the generic GT3 pack. I already have a GT3 car in iRacing and while the races can provide some exciting wheel to wheel action, it's simply too easy to drive thanks to its countless electronic gizmos. GT3 cars are only one step away from Telsa's self-driven cars, which I'm sure one day will dominate motor racing but destroy sim racing completely.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
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  2. burgesjl

    burgesjl Registered

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    Seeing the RD video (which contains just about all the information we'd have expected to see in the roadmap) now makes some sense that perhaps Tim thought that this information was already out in the wild, and so the Sept roadmap we got was simply filling in some other information that wasn't covered in the video. Me, I'd have just linked the video and done a few bullet point summaries from it as the roadmap.

    As regards the prioritization and speed of development, these are the two critical elements for any gaming company, and I've had my problems with iRacing in particular on what they are choosing to prioritize. There has been a groundswell over there for a very long time for them to fix existing areas which aren't working properly (tire model heat management) before they release new ones (dirt). We all understand that its the same set of resources trying to work on both. For rF2, we had statements about the DX11 build being the go-forward platform and retirement of DX9 and it would be nice to get confirmation of this plan. It seems like the devs may have decided that DX11 is 'good enough' and have made a pivot onto rain effects; and I think that was all highly premature. My complaints to iRacing were that devs had basically decided what they wanted to work on, which was 'most interesting' to them at that time - which means the less interesting stuff of bug fixing and performance improvement got left behind. Seeing the same worrying things here potentially. I suspect some of this is being done under perceived competitor pressures, given PC2 was being released with similar capability to that shown and getting lots of hype as a result. Frankly, I'd rather these companies just concentrate on their own roadmaps and not react to hype meters. iRacing did the same with a 'loose lips' of rallycross (delayed/missed last release, but coming real soon!!!!!!) and all the other great things in development the day before PC2 release; a clear attempt to say 'don't leave us'. It comes across as weak or assumes we are all butterflies.

    In terms of speed, I understand why they went and did WFG but by necessity it meant a lot of time and effort spent to support that than doggedly following the dev roadmap/timeline. A lot of what they built for that (content - GT3 car and track; and competition infrastructure) were on the roadmap but had to be accelerated. So I think this possibly caused delays in the more extensive delivery of some features/functions, which included the UI. It's clear there are developments desired on a number of major fronts; the video shows that the main focus initially was on graphics (which was probably right), new content, the next is in the UI/competition infrastructure and finally they will get to some physics and core sim features next year. I think that all makes sense. I also think they may have changed their target for what they want in the UI (in that it was initially just to replace the current one for same features, but now is being rolled into wider changes with competition which I think is ultimately the right decision). So I can't really fault the direction and prioritization overall, and I understand the roadmap has to evolve over time and as things get learned 'in real time', not all development time/effort can be predicted etc. etc. But as of right now, one year into S397 taking over rF2, we have the DX11 build in a somewhat less than optimal state and several (3-4) incomplete pieces of new content to show for it, and not all existing content rebuilt for DX11 either, and no new UI. If the GT3 cars are in fact nearly complete and just awaiting signoff then that's a better rate of content development than I would have expected. Maybe they are building new tooling to be able to take laserscanned tracks and produce the 3D models (which would enable them to buy scans and build art quicker) and some of that tooling work isn't going to be visible to us (but it wasn't mentioned in previous roadmaps, and again, will require scarce resources/deprioritizing something else). No doubt everyone is working hard.

    I do feel perhaps they are being a bit too ambitious with the amount of stuff they are trying to bite off given limited resources, and with the associated danger of 'declare complete and move on to the next interesting bit' as opposed to really finishing/optimizing what they've built - which has been a criticism of ISI over the years. S397 have clearly upped the development rate and increasing the excitement level, but they haven't yet fully proven delivery to commitments in my opinion. Looking forward to the delivery of more in the next quarter before Xmas/New Year though as there are many major steps forward imminent.
     
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  3. stonec

    stonec Member

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    Why can't they be disappointed? If there was no response to these roadmaps, positive or negative, I'd be more worried. Lots of people agreed with my questions in post #4, so I don't think they are without basis.

    Actually as someone who does software development part time, I knew that the UI development was not going to be straightforward. ISI tried something similar a couple of years ago, that is to transform the current UI into HTML5 like tech. For some reason they couldn't make it work, so they went back to plan B and just updated the graphics/art for Full HD. I think it's pretty straightforward to add new HTML5/Java code, the tricky part is to make it work with ISIMotor real time engine. And things like overlays when you race. How these two engines work together when they are from two different worlds, that's the challenge. And that's why I was wondering if it had been a better idea to do a separate UI app like Assetto Corsa has done. The main game.exe in Assetto only starts when you have gone through all the UI options and load the track.
     
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  4. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    S397 seem to be overseeing the value of quick wins. Both for requests and for bug fixing. Hot fixes and reactions were promised but they are only applied seldomly and in many cases when the problems created directly affected S397. It is embarrasing to prioritize the update of Silverstone AIW for avoiding cut track at WFG (nobody complained until then) when the same treatment is not being given for more obvious easy to solve bugs.

    The impression the community gets, when things that should be pretty quick to fix are postponed forever, is really negative:
    - Civic remains with buggy medium tires as default choice.
    - Radical LH weight distribution and AI straight speed have not been corrected.
    - McLaren is released without wet tires.
    - Several bugs were introduced when changing rules to improve stock cars. Reason enough to ROLL BACK if no fixing is expected immediate.
    - Cut track problems had been reported long ago and nor ISI nor S397 had addressed those issues. Considering how quickly was Silverstone fixed, revisiting AIW everytime a track was updated to DX11 would have been nice.
    - Easy to apply supported requests are put off forever.

    If some more care would have been shown for actual problems and necessities for the released stuff everything would be much more in control. The to-do list is like the universe, expanding.
     
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  5. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    One thing is that it is annoying that quick fixes arent released. But the worst part is that to me it seems just plain sloppy and careless that the Civic tire issue and Radical AI issue wasnt corrected within a couple of days. To me it seems like a very basic thing to fix. I was really optimistic when S397 took over but things like that says alot about a developer to me.
     
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  6. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

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    the priority simply ...

    you think that correct the civic that "nobody plays" (joke) has priority on the DX11 / VR / new contained/new UI/matchmaker/lasrscan etc...
    I would like to upgrade and correct the old cars and tracks, but not at the expense of novelty!!
    i think priority (for me) New UI with Matchmaking (competitive online race like IR) best perf on dx11, laserscan tracks, new cars!!
     
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  7. demerzel

    demerzel Registered

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    So anytime in the next 30 days. D:
     
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  8. T1specialist

    T1specialist Registered

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    I don't really see a catastrophe here. The roadmaps are not road maps in the traditional sense. It is just a name for a monthly news blog post. That's what they are after all. The timing is kinda odd and with the roadmap dates slipping towards the end of the month is kinda bad. After all 397 could have released the roadmap before simexpo to hype up rf2. Now afterwards it doesn't really add much on its own. However they did announce the corvette exclusively in the roadmap. All in all it has not been bad month. The rain changes is a positive new thing and something people were not expecting a month ago. It also ties into the dx11 as those two things are very much connected under the hood.

    And if you watch the videos you know the ui has been delayed. Also don't forget the rain does also factor into the dx11 stuff. Those two don't exist in separate vacuums.

    If I had to complain about something then more info about the dx11 progress would be nice with some response about the stutters and plugins. Also the new ui should deserve more words about it and the dlc pack as well. But as was said in the video it is (all is) delayed. Whether 397 should have put all that into the roadmap is kinda irrelevant imho. If people are deep enough into rf2 they if they read the blog then they probably watch the videos as well.
     
  9. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    Just to put some water on fire...rain will be a reality before the end of year...october deadline is just for cars...so I will expect the GT3 pack at the end of october and rain at the end of november...

    About old content being updated, yes I agree, something more can be done to speed up the process, same to fix civic and radical issues but I think the problem is due to the never ending to-do list and to how they divide their forces between projects...
     
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  10. F1 2004

    F1 2004 Registered

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    Ehm Marcel said, the GT3 pack is nearly close at the end of September and the rain maybe at the same time.
     
  11. TJones

    TJones Registered

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    Fixing bugs of recently released content or builds, should be the very first priority IMO. Otherwise the whole number of bugs and glitches summarize up and the overall experience suffers.

    New wet weather graphics looks very promising though. I wouldn't count the Bentley to my favorite cars, but the Callaway Corvette. :D
     
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  12. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    @Christopher Elliott, @Michael Borda or @Marcel Offermans :

    Rain rework = rain effect and rain tire update, right? Rain tire update = universal rain tire update (all content) = update to current dry tire = eventually waterfall back to historics?

    If yes to any or all parts, how much of that will be documented for public viewing or even developed for public modding usage? Thanks.
     
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  13. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    Agree. "Roadmap" is at least pointless (a September roadmap on the 27th, seriously???), quick fixes not there,
    well I wont complete the list as that would fill several pages....
    S397 is no better then ISI right now!
    Thats all still not the way how to fix this whole rF2-mess.
    Im (still) dissapointed and dont expect much in the future (apart from pcars2, AC2, Reiza18, R3E major update, kart racin pro.......what else to come)
    Still thinking going directly to rF3 would have been the best way, as everything else is just patching and messing.
    (license-argument is- and always was invalid! Only valid point is MONEY!)
    Get you some good investors I say.
    My million cents, over and out.
     
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  14. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    I think there are only two levers to play:

    - money to hire, pay licenses laser tracks scans etc. Is this possible objectively? I think not.
    - To make a really optimal prioritization of the characteristics that make a simulation the best simulation : They can play on this lever, it's free !!! Unfortunately on this point they are extremely bad :a new UI was not necessary and cost enormous time and money. The VR? ok for some players this seems essential. Directx 11? no need, just a strong optimization of directx 9 graphics.
    Why? Rfactor 2 can not fight against AC and PC2 by improving these weaknesses because: the delay is enormous and they are a very small team.
    What should be done ? Fighting by improving these strengths: FFB, physics, car content, some algorithms like realroad etc.
    Conclusion: Another 1 year delay. I hope I am wrong.
     
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  15. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    Do you guys know the new UI isn't only for your eyes?
    This would be the base for future updates (multy, championship, hud, etc) and rain will bring us also new wet tire model and so on...so...where is the problem?
     
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  16. ECAR_Tracks

    ECAR_Tracks Registered

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    September 2010!
    Man, this is 7 years ago! 7 YEARS! This picture is pure bait.
    The person responsible for this scam should be identified at this point, many customers were fooled by this single image.
     
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  17. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    I believe ISI in 2010 was able to implement those rain effects shown in the picture (no Photoshop), the problem they had was probably with performance on available graphic cards, without rain graphic performance was already marginal (to be kind).
    Cheers.
     
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  18. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    You are right the priority.

    But may be working only on top priority projects and forgetting minor bug fixes is not always the best solution.

    In every planning you should devote around 90-95 % of your workforce to priority items, and 5-10 % to solve minor bugs. This way, your customer base sees that you care about the bugs they report, and that they are finally solved.

    The tire problem of the Honda was a minor bug three days after it's release, six months later it has become a major bug, and the good content you devoted many hours to develop is considered garbage (so non existent) by your user base.

    Cheers.
     
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  19. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    New tire model? Are you sure?
    What tire model does is to calculate what happens to the tire under loading.
    Rain only affects grip. If anything is to be changed is the grip equations.
    Don't try to sell this as something revolutionary. It isn't.

    The major work being done is to implement rain in the wipers and a better representation of water in track. For this it seems tracks will need to be updated as Nola is being done.

    BTW NOLA track limits are a disaster. Finish line entry turn has no limits. Will they be reviewed?
     
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  20. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

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    That! And when they`re revisiting this track, the TimezoneRelativeGMT (actually its -4.0, but it is -5.0...) could be fixed. too...
     
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