Latest Roadmap Update - September 2017

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Why they should reiterate month by month the same things? To lengthen each roadmap repeating the same things?
They said things in august, if in september they don't make a statement on the same topic, it must be assumed that what previously said remain valid.
 
Much of the community seems frustrated. I understand that and I am one of them.

ISI (studio 397) is the absolute leader in terms of FFB / physics and car quality (I distinguish with modded cars that do not reach the same level except graphics and sound).

But really, the information given and the choices in terms of priority and poor communication and lack of marketing are distressing.

Moreover, most of the topics on this forum where there are problems that ISI should try to answer are subjects where it is the users who answer to help the community : it is not normal.

People are getting tired. You have to hear it.
 
Lgel said:
Do your homework, read past posts (he has been hosting many RF2 races, and helped many people here).
Cheers.
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So if I do that it's ok for me to basically piss and moan in every post,I guess not,I'd be critised for doing that too.

People moan about stuff being rushed and released early with bugs(mclaren)
Then the people moan things aren't being rushed and released with bugs (Bentley rain ui) etc lol

Let's face it,we simracers like to moan
 
dadaboomda said:
Much of the community seems frustrated. I understand that and I am one of them.

ISI (studio 397) is the absolute leader in terms of FFB / physics and car quality (I distinguish with modded cars that do not reach the same level except graphics and sound).

But really, the information given and the choices in terms of priority and poor communication and lack of marketing are distressing.

Moreover, most of the topics on this forum where there are problems that ISI should try to answer are subjects where it is the users who answer to help the community : it is not normal.

People are getting tired. You have to hear it.
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I do realise that,but I think folks may have to high expectations for s397 who have yet to generate any meaningful revenue,we all know the Dev size and in fact most devs are the same as isi,I just think folks are expecting too much too soon,we all want what's best for rf2.

if I knew s397 had a big pot of money to spend on rf2,then I'd be asking why they haven't hired more devs to speed up development,but I don't because we don't know

Things could be worst though,we could be paying $110 yearly subscription and $15 per car and track to have no road maps and only updates every 4months

I get why some are down on rf2,I was the same way over on iracing,I didn't agree with their cash grab business model,I hated their tyre model,and it pissed me off that there were bugs that were years old,and every new build introduced more bugs on top.

But in the end I just let my sub run out,it was too much money for too little depth,rf2 cost £18 many months ago,I can't justify moaning about stuff because in my mind I paid a tiny amount for such a great base product which had the simulation value I want
 
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Devs are working hard, no doubt on this!
Are faster? Compared to ISI standards yes (sorry again), compared to other devs teams? No, and do you know why? Dev size, first title for S397, different approach and using as base a game they didn't develop (learning someone else works requires time) so...
you guys are here moaning against a group of devs working hard to us (because right now I don't think the game generated a meaningfull revenue, so they are working for us, the userbase, with the hope to attract new people) just because they moved the release date a month later...seriously?
Marcel said several times they are waiting for permissions...what else do you want?
Their blood?
 
DaVeX said:
Dev size, first title for S397, different approach and using as base a game they didn't develop (learning someone else works requires time) so.
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Sure? Afaik most (if not all...?) ISI rF2 developer moved to S397. Besides that, they were involved for the rF2 steam move as well. And its not their first game title working on it, they did it (and afaik still do it) on AMS...
 
They want it all, they want it now.. and the day after you give all that to them, they will ask something more.
I call it addiction.
I'm really happy how things are going since Studio397 took over, and in the hopeful waiting for online competition structure I enjoy (when frustration does not take over) offline racing.
 
May be if communication was better and more transparent, a lot of moaning could be avoided.

Why does the interview of Marcel at RaceDepartment (nothing against them, very good site) have more info than the September roadmap on S397 official roadmap?
In the September roadmap people waited for three important things:
- end of DX11 beta, which meant release of new version with the many problems of performance solved.
- a date for the new UI (which is not only a revamp of the old UI, but a new competition workspace).
- a date for the release of the GT3 pack.

So they could have written the following with the dates they choose, those I give are fictional.
- It took us more time than expected to fix the problems reported by the user base during the DX11 beta, we expected to be able to make the final DX11 version available at the end of September, we do now target end of October.
- We target to release the new UI version one month after the release of the DX11 version.
- We have the GT3 pack in an advanced stage of testing, we are waiting for manufacturer's clearance, we have good hope of releasing two of them in October, the third in November.

Just my 2cts, it is called client expectations management in the industry.

Cheers.
 
DaVeX said:
People disappointed by a "game" roadmap...I think I should change my life priorities too in order to understand what is happening here...
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Very true. But I think rFactor 2 has a small, but very passionate community who just want the best from the sim. I've already spent more hours on rFactor in two months than I did in Assetto Corsa over two years. But Assetto Corsa is nothing but a pretty looking arcade racer with no real replay value; rFactor 2 is much, much deeper. This is the root of the frustration, if they could just address the bugs, in the form of hot fixes, then there would be virtually no complaints.

I quite liked the Roadmap, even though there was no mention of historical content, because I love rain racing at Spa '66 in the Brabham BT20, and if they could just fix the AI so they pitted only when necessary (or not at all if the whole race was wet) then I'd be very pleased with rFactor.

So I welcome the new ambient lighting and weather effects, along with the contact sparks and scratches, but just hope that they will come along with the DX11 version of Spa '66, a fix to the sorely needed rain AI bug, and some attempt to remove the stuttering issue (although cleaning the fan does help, I did it at the weekend and installed another fan just behind my laptop). But I doubt it'll work for everyone.

But to get irate over it is madness, especially on a forum where it's mostly us, the player, rather than the developers themselves. We're essentially fighting amongst ourselves, which is absurd, especially considering most of us are over thirty and all share the same passion otherwise we wouldn't be here. SPASKIS alone must spend close to two hours writing his posts, which is evident by his grammatical accuracy and his coherent argumentation. Yet one does wonder why he continues to do so when the ones who pull the strings don't even acknowledge him.

The cost of the game is irrelevant; I'm sure most of us waste more on useless things over a few weeks without even realising. I'm sure there would be far fewer complaints if there were an option to delete our forum account. Remove the temptation to post and you can easily break the habit. All Internet forums are the same in my opinion, useless superfluous bickering that leads nowhere and which only wastes time.
 
Surprised no mention of formula e
( if it's happening as those job ads indicated )

People getting tad restless
do bear in mind holidays/exbo/WFG event must have taken people away from hands on rf2 Dev
 
Jon said:
Very true. But I think rFactor 2 has a small, but very passionate community who just want the best from the sim. I've already spent more hours on rFactor in two months than I did in Assetto Corsa over two years. But Assetto Corsa is nothing but a pretty looking arcade racer with no real replay value; rFactor 2 is much, much deeper. This is the root of the frustration, if they could just address the bugs, in the form of hot fixes, then there would be virtually no complaints.

I quite liked the Roadmap, even though there was no mention of historical content, because I love rain racing at Spa '66 in the Brabham BT20, and if they could just fix the AI so they pitted only when necessary (or not at all if the whole race was wet) then I'd be very pleased with rFactor.

So I welcome the new ambient lighting and weather effects, along with the contact sparks and scratches, but just hope that they will come along with the DX11 version of Spa '66, a fix to the sorely needed rain AI bug, and some attempt to remove the stuttering issue (although cleaning the fan does help, I did it at the weekend and installed another fan just behind my laptop). But I doubt it'll work for everyone.

But to get irate over it is madness, especially on a forum where it's mostly us, the player, rather than the developers themselves. We're essentially fighting amongst ourselves, which is absurd, especially considering most of us are over thirty and all share the same passion otherwise we wouldn't be here. SPASKIS alone must spend close to two hours writing his posts, which is evident by his grammatical accuracy and his coherent argumentation. Yet one does wonder why he continues to do so when the ones who pull the strings don't even acknowledge him.

The cost of the game is irrelevant; I'm sure most of us waste more on useless things over a few weeks without even realising. I'm sure there would be far fewer complaints if there were an option to delete our forum account. Remove the temptation to post and you can easily break the habit. All Internet forums are the same in my opinion, useless superfluous bickering that leads nowhere and which only wastes time.
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Thanks contributing to the bickering lol.
I don't see it as bickering but dabateing others opinions or actions.

I agree with most you said apart from the cost of the game,how do you think devs fund development,money trees or remortgaging all their houses lol.

Revenue is key to everything,that's why I can't complain for the pittyful £18 I paid,I can't expect too much from them for now,once/if they start generating large amounts of revenue,which I continue to contribute too,if they fail to better the previous rf2 development,frequency/quality,then I will moan too,until then I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Side note,I don't think I can list one game That I have where communication is as good as it needs to be,communication can always be improved but I think most devs resort to as little as possible because they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
 
People always like to go back talking about how we should get something in return to our money, or that we have gotten that years ago if we have been around for a long time already, and that rf2 is less expensive product than other sims in the market. I think we can all agree that rf2 is easily worth it's price and so much more. I truly believe this isn't the reason why people are complaining here, the reason isn't that they expect more for their money but that they expect more because they love the sim and want to keep playing the sim.

But love can die if it's one sided love, it takes two to make it work, both the players' and devs' effort. When there is other sims out there trying to seduce you, you need to see reasons why you should stick around if your needs are neglected long enough and somebody else is answering your prayers. Also, if we get to the point where most people have run out of patience and have moved elsewhere to try their luck with other products, there might not be any reasons for the rest to stick around because without fellow simracers it isn't much fun. When there is no players there is no reasons for devs to continue their efforts. They might even think that the players didn't want what they promised in the first place, failing to see the problem isn't what they promised, but what they managed to deliver.

This is what me, and I believe many more, fear. That this place becomes a ghost town before studio 397 have a chance to deliver. I'm sure people are willing to play slightly inferior products if those sims have managed to lure in the majority of the players.There is no chance of returning to your old love after that because it has died out due to losing the vital element that makes any game tick, the players.

Would add that personally I'm not too worried yet. Lots of interesting stuff coming in the near future, online racing is usually high quality and there is still healty buzz around rf2. I just hope that not everything would take eternity to finish as the competition is catching up fast. I'm sure if AC and PC2 (too early to speak about probably) wouldn't have such a terrible online etiquette then some rf2 players might have already moved over to those sims because they are not miles behind in physics and ffb anymore. Sure sometimes small differences count too. But probably only for us diehard fans of rf2.

Just my few cents.

-Matt
 
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patchedupdemon said:
Thanks contributing to the bickering lol.
I don't see it as bickering but dabateing others opinions or actions.

I agree with most you said apart from the cost of the game,how do you think devs fund development,money trees or remortgaging all their houses lol.

Revenue is key to everything,that's why I can't complain for the pittyful £18 I paid,I can't expect too much from them for now,once/if they start generating large amounts of revenue,which I continue to contribute too,if they fail to better the previous rf2 development,frequency/quality,then I will moan too,until then I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Side note,I don't think I can list one game That I have where communication is as good as it needs to be,communication can always be improved but I think most devs resort to as little as possible because they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
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I also agree with what you said, but you completely misunderstood me when I said the price of the game is irrelevant. The price of the game is perfectly reasonable in my opinion, and I fully support DLC, even if I wouldn't myself buy the generic GT3 pack. I already have a GT3 car in iRacing and while the races can provide some exciting wheel to wheel action, it's simply too easy to drive thanks to its countless electronic gizmos. GT3 cars are only one step away from Telsa's self-driven cars, which I'm sure one day will dominate motor racing but destroy sim racing completely.
 
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Seeing the RD video (which contains just about all the information we'd have expected to see in the roadmap) now makes some sense that perhaps Tim thought that this information was already out in the wild, and so the Sept roadmap we got was simply filling in some other information that wasn't covered in the video. Me, I'd have just linked the video and done a few bullet point summaries from it as the roadmap.

As regards the prioritization and speed of development, these are the two critical elements for any gaming company, and I've had my problems with iRacing in particular on what they are choosing to prioritize. There has been a groundswell over there for a very long time for them to fix existing areas which aren't working properly (tire model heat management) before they release new ones (dirt). We all understand that its the same set of resources trying to work on both. For rF2, we had statements about the DX11 build being the go-forward platform and retirement of DX9 and it would be nice to get confirmation of this plan. It seems like the devs may have decided that DX11 is 'good enough' and have made a pivot onto rain effects; and I think that was all highly premature. My complaints to iRacing were that devs had basically decided what they wanted to work on, which was 'most interesting' to them at that time - which means the less interesting stuff of bug fixing and performance improvement got left behind. Seeing the same worrying things here potentially. I suspect some of this is being done under perceived competitor pressures, given PC2 was being released with similar capability to that shown and getting lots of hype as a result. Frankly, I'd rather these companies just concentrate on their own roadmaps and not react to hype meters. iRacing did the same with a 'loose lips' of rallycross (delayed/missed last release, but coming real soon!!!!!!) and all the other great things in development the day before PC2 release; a clear attempt to say 'don't leave us'. It comes across as weak or assumes we are all butterflies.

In terms of speed, I understand why they went and did WFG but by necessity it meant a lot of time and effort spent to support that than doggedly following the dev roadmap/timeline. A lot of what they built for that (content - GT3 car and track; and competition infrastructure) were on the roadmap but had to be accelerated. So I think this possibly caused delays in the more extensive delivery of some features/functions, which included the UI. It's clear there are developments desired on a number of major fronts; the video shows that the main focus initially was on graphics (which was probably right), new content, the next is in the UI/competition infrastructure and finally they will get to some physics and core sim features next year. I think that all makes sense. I also think they may have changed their target for what they want in the UI (in that it was initially just to replace the current one for same features, but now is being rolled into wider changes with competition which I think is ultimately the right decision). So I can't really fault the direction and prioritization overall, and I understand the roadmap has to evolve over time and as things get learned 'in real time', not all development time/effort can be predicted etc. etc. But as of right now, one year into S397 taking over rF2, we have the DX11 build in a somewhat less than optimal state and several (3-4) incomplete pieces of new content to show for it, and not all existing content rebuilt for DX11 either, and no new UI. If the GT3 cars are in fact nearly complete and just awaiting signoff then that's a better rate of content development than I would have expected. Maybe they are building new tooling to be able to take laserscanned tracks and produce the 3D models (which would enable them to buy scans and build art quicker) and some of that tooling work isn't going to be visible to us (but it wasn't mentioned in previous roadmaps, and again, will require scarce resources/deprioritizing something else). No doubt everyone is working hard.

I do feel perhaps they are being a bit too ambitious with the amount of stuff they are trying to bite off given limited resources, and with the associated danger of 'declare complete and move on to the next interesting bit' as opposed to really finishing/optimizing what they've built - which has been a criticism of ISI over the years. S397 have clearly upped the development rate and increasing the excitement level, but they haven't yet fully proven delivery to commitments in my opinion. Looking forward to the delivery of more in the next quarter before Xmas/New Year though as there are many major steps forward imminent.
 
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