Latest Roadmap Update - September 2017

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@TIG_green You don't need to only play one sim. You can put rF2 aside for a while, play something else, and come back to rF2 when it does more that you want, or does it well enough to warrant your time. Players are much more one-eyed about all this stuff than developers are.

Sitting here watching the forums and waiting for updates the whole time, in rF2, is a bad idea. We all have quite similar wishlists, we just order them differently, and the devs can only do so much. They're doing something, it'll move in the right direction, we just need to remain patient. If that's proving difficult, or you find yourself arguing with people about what should be most important, or pulling figures out of your a**e about what percentage of users get good dx11 performance, etc... just take a break. It's really not worth it.
 
stonec said:
Actually I think the limits are on purpose not strict. I as a league admin have had to reduce limits manually on most rF2 tracks, because the automated system is not good enough as it is. When there are 70 lap league races (not even speaking about endurance racing), and you get a stop and go on the third cut, it's simply too strict, especially as the system may detect incidental widegoings as cuts. No problem if there was an easy way to turn cut detection off, but there isn't such option. So all these strict limits most of the time turn into a nuisance. This is my personal opinion.
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This! Isimotor cut track system just sucks. Reiza did something by giving us possiblity to select how much warnings go before a penalty, but would be better to have this + reset once a penalty is given. So you could have like 2 warnings only, 3rd time the guy get a penalty, then it is reset, 2 warnings again and then a penalty.
Also with that an inside game option that would allow us to easily modify the cut areas without modifying the original track files would be mega.
 
Lazza said:
@TIG_green You don't need to only play one sim. You can put rF2 aside for a while, play something else, and come back to rF2 when it does more that you want, or does it well enough to warrant your time. Players are much more one-eyed about all this stuff than developers are.

Sitting here watching the forums and waiting for updates the whole time, in rF2, is a bad idea. We all have quite similar wishlists, we just order them differently, and the devs can only do so much. They're doing something, it'll move in the right direction, we just need to remain patient. If that's proving difficult, or you find yourself arguing with people about what should be most important, or pulling figures out of your a**e about what percentage of users get good dx11 performance, etc... just take a break. It's really not worth it.
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It's not that easy. I'm in a league and one of the admins there, can't just disappear, we have pretty good thing going on over there. Once you would lose the grip it would be pretty hard to get it going again. And this wasn't about me anyway but about the masses that may affect what happen to leagues and rf2.

And I'm not as optimistic as you that people would find their way back to rf2 once they have left. I have time for only one sim at a time. And I believe many will choose to concentrate to only one (doesn't matter if it's wise or not). Sure will be easier for those with more time and if they only do casual hop in- hop out racing.
 
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stonec said:
Actually I think the limits are on purpose not strict. I as a league admin have had to reduce limits manually on most rF2 tracks, because the automated system is not good enough as it is. When there are 70 lap league races (not even speaking about endurance racing), and you get a stop and go on the third cut, it's simply too strict, especially as the system may detect incidental widegoings as cuts. No problem if there was an easy way to turn cut detection off, but there isn't such option. So all these strict limits most of the time turn into a nuisance. This is my personal opinion.
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We have different experience. I have had no problems with any of my tracks using standard cut track parameters. It is very easy to adjust when using BTB for creating the track. For the fast line it sucks, however!

Cut track detection system can be actually disabled. There are actually two ways. They are both based in changing cut track parameters. For the values to be used you can check RaceRfactor tracks. Latest Monza is released with two versions. Cut detection on and cut detection off.
1.Redefine gdb parameters within the vmod
2. Create an incremental update for the track redefining gdb. If you include the update in the vmod it is transparent to the users and the update gets uninstalled when the vmod is uninstalled.

I agree that the number of cuts before applying a penalty should be editable.
As you and everybody agrees it is not the same a 1 hour race or a 24 hour one.

A better system could be resetting this values to zero periodically. Something as number of cuts in the last hour would be a better figure on which to base penalties.
However, I disagree on resetting to zero after serving penalty. Repetitive cut tracks should always penalise.

You say NOLA was left on purpose so forgiving. IMO it is the same case as Silverstone. My opinion is that if they had used NOLA for WFG they would have revisited AIW for redefining track limits.
 
Reading all the comments outside of this forum it seems that people in general recieved the roadmap very well and all that it offers and even people like Mel aren't going for a bash. Only the people here in this threat are so negative that I am a bit puzzled. I can't have all that negativity in my life tbh. Maybe they should have linked he RD video in the RM but I think everything that needs to be said, was covered.

-improved rain effects and ambient lighting (something I've been waiting on for ages to make rain a polished feature)
-UI is tested right now (wich links pretty well to what was explained in prior roadmaps), with a delay and an explaination for it
-a new car announced for the GT3 pack (all cars are finished and the tech is in place with BOP and aproval being left)
-further plans on competition implementation and further core improvements (Temperatures ...) going into 2018

I don't know what you guys are smoking, but that reads very positive for me and covers alot of areas that I had in my initial wishlist. I think it is pretty nice that they are communicating all this and that they talk about delays openly. Would you rather have rushed out crap or no notification about delays? But who am I talking to, you will never please everyone.
 
hitm4k3r said:
Reading all the comments outside of this forum it seems that people in general recieved the roadmap very well and all that it offers and even people like Mel aren't going for a bash. Only the people here in this threat are so negative that I am a bit puzzled. I can't have all that negativity in my life tbh. Maybe they should have linked he RD video in the RM but I think everything that needs to be said, was covered.

-improved rain effects and ambient lighting (something I've been waiting on for ages to make rain a polished feature)
-UI is tested right now (wich links pretty well to what was explained in prior roadmaps), with a delay and an explaination for it
-a new car announced for the GT3 pack (all cars are finished and the tech is in place with BOP and aproval being left)
-further plans on competition implementation and further core improvements (Temperatures ...) going into 2018

I don't know what you guys are smoking, but that reads very positive for me and covers alot of areas that I had in my initial wishlist. I think it is pretty nice that they are communicating all this and that they talk about delays openly. Would you rather have rushed out crap or no notification about delays? But who am I talking to, you will never please everyone.
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Yeah I was surprised too I saw Mel didn't bash rF2 as he does in every article in RD. Then you come here and it's pure negativity. The tables have fliped hahaha
 
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Rain effects and working wipers that's what I'm waiting for since 2012. (I know wipers would already work .... but are useless without raindrops on the screen) Visuable damage on cars, a Bentley and a Corvette and a competition infrastructure next year.
For me that sounds good. Looking forward to get it ;)
 
patchedupdemon said:
Do we know how easy it is to fix problems,do we know how much of a mess rf2 core is,do we know how hard rf2 core is to work with etc.

You have to look at this from a business point of view,revenue is key,candy,sparkles and glitter is what draws revenue in,the wants long of standing members usually aren't priority in any game,I.e iracing with its content content content approach,while features and bugs that are years behind being created or fixed are pushed down the ladder.

They have released dx11 which is on par with dx9 but with better graphics,they have implemented vr,they have given us several pieces of content,optimisations have been done to both api's,dx11 and vr where massive undertakings,I think s397 have done just fine for the first year of the merger,could things be better organised,of course,could things be a lot worst,definitely.

Re the bugs with the new content,I'd personally rather they only release when they know there's no bugs,but then folks would moan how long it's taking,like the Bentley and rain effects lol.

We could also have been waiting 2-3 years for a rf3 that would have had to be vastly different with new engines for people not to complain it's just rf2 2.0.

If I'm wrong and everything being complained about is an "easy" fix,then Pls prove it to me and I'll admit I'm wrong.

But hey,devils advocate gets u put on the ignore list so feel free to ignore me.
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Well said my man.
We went from getting an update every millenium from ISI to major updates every few months plus lots of new content and people are dissatisfied.
What kind of roadmap update would you expect after August anyway.
RF2 needed new graphical environment, GT3s and completely new UI and we are getting there this year.
 
Probably my situation is different from everyone else, and this is why I don't understand how people are dissatisfied with development: I bought RF2 in 2012 and since then I have always been crippled by CTD's pressing ESC. This meant that playing offline hoping to be able to complete a full session of practice/quali/race was like winning the lottery. Since the switch to DX11, while CTDs sometimes happen, I can now enjoy the game without the constant fear that pressing a single keystroke could kill it. Now the game is even more fluid, in DX9 I kept detail in function to play V-sync off with around 120 fps, now with DX11 I'm playing with V-sync on, 60 FPS, and gameplay is smoother.
About the content: there is already more content than I will ever play with, both in tracks and cars, so I don't really feel to urge to have more. Yes I would like to have the old content updated, but I understand that probably it's not now the time for that.
I have high hopes for 2018, development is pointing in the right direction from my POV, and if new GUI and other stuff that run beside the simulation will be able to improve both offline and online experience, I think RF2 will rapidly make leap forwards.
 
TIG_green said:
It's not that easy. I'm in a league and one of the admins there, can't just disappear, we have pretty good thing going on over there. Once you would lose the grip it would be pretty hard to get it going again. And this wasn't about me anyway but about the masses that may affect what happen to leagues and rf2.

And I'm not as optimistic as you that people would find their way back to rf2 once they have left. I have time for only one sim at a time. And I believe many will choose to concentrate to only one (doesn't matter if it's wise or not). Sure will be easier for those with more time and if they only do casual hop in- hop out racing.
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First let me clarify the bulk of my post was aimed generally, not at your situation specifically.

I understand a league has more inertia, but it's a rare simmer these days (or at least in these parts... I suspect some iRacers have more loyalty if I can use that word) that doesn't have at least a couple of titles. And I think as rF2 further matures and starts to deliver not only on the stuff that S397 envisions, but the bits we've had here for years that haven't ever been completed, a lot will at least dabble if not 'move' back to it. Probably still not exclusively, but I think those days are largely gone (and in many ways that's only a good thing). And yes, I'm being unusually positive in saying that will happen, but why not.

A league might take a season or two to commit to changing, but if the quality is there it would happen. You're worried now about people and leagues leaving, but that's the same mechanism that will bring them back.
 
One question to arise from this is 'what do I expect from a roadmap'. To me, a roadmap is not just 'current news wrapup on what we've been working on/events we have attended in the last 30 days' nor is it 'what is up for release in the next 30 days'. The roadmap is confirmation of development priority areas, something of progress on those, but also discussion of other areas that may have come into the roadmap or others that may have dropped out of it or been delayed. They can certainly give us info on licensing, but that only makes sense if they are committed to deliver that content in fairly short order (not the multi-year delays from iRacing, or stuff that was licensed to great fanfare and then never seen). In this regard, I think S397 are shooting themselves in the foot with not revealing all the cars in the GT pack. If the manufacturers don't give them sign-off, either they have to improve what they have or go get another license they can execute to fulfill the pack. It really doesn't help them with trying to keep quiet about what is planned to be in that pack.

The roadmap is a recognition of priority development areas. Some of that is just things they may like to do/innovative features/extending the lead, and some of them are competitive gaps. We know they've had graphics engine/VR gaps to some titles; somewhat filled, but I still say they haven't completely executed on that. AMS/Reiza can't do VR on their aging engine (though R3E/Sector3 somehow managed it on theirs, kudos to them). But they are closing the 'graphics gap' to AC and PC1. PC2 has moved the graphics forward again (weather), so I understand the need to try to capitalize on the real road foundation they have to get equality there. On content, they are miles behind every other title; GT pack is important to get them back in the game, but they also desperately need more tracks, and we've heard nothing on that front and still at 0.2 on Zandvoort. Everyone is miles behind iRacing in online 'official' competitions (championship style racing) and I'd argue also for league racing as well. PC2 now have their competition license structures out there; we know something is coming from R3E. And finally on core sim itself, in my opinion rF2 is ahead of AC, about level with AMS but with a better base, and the same for R3E. I've been very disappointed in the lack of 'fixes' iRacing have to their core sim whilst they have developed dirt - tires suck. PC was way behind on physics/FFB on PC1 but seem to have largely caught up with PC2. But rF2 is letting itself down in several areas that could easily be rectified; SPASKIS has it bang on right. If they fix these aberrations it will get a lot of positive thoughts from the current community and stop them drifting away, which was what has been happening.

Getting 'back up to par' means fixing long held problems as well as adding new capability and this should not be overlooked, for both offline players and online leagues. That then only leaves the content gap in the short term. I think they do have some time on the larger online competition issues, but PC2 has made that a bit more of a pressing problem than it had been, and delays here are a bit of a concern. If PC2 makes rapid headway here... that's not good. rF2 has PC2 beat on physics and such, and I think there is a real opportunity to pull people away from iRacing given issues within their sim and a vulnerability in lack of dynamic lighting/weather; not to say also pulling people back from AC online competition also (because that's where I think the majority have drifted to).

So tell us about what's been done and impending, tell us about what developments are being to done to establish new core features/capability, but also open up the debate about what the vision and future is. That's what I want in a roadmap.
 
burgesjl said:
If the manufacturers don't give them sign-off
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This has been repeated several times.
How if the initial release date was September, can there still be issues regarding permissions?

I would like to know which will be the content that I paid for and was due today.

If no info is given info about the remaining two cars, I find it very very improbable that the full pack will be available at the end of October.

Considering past dates it is taking about 6-8 weeks to finish a car. Bentley seems to be in testing phase and work on Corvette seems to have started at least in the 3D part. I find it very unlikely to have the GT pack before the end of November.

The September call was never realistic IMO but a marketing move to increase sales for the DLC bundle. Is this a good symptom?

I already found very unlikely that we could have it for September almost two months ago and I was called negative.
https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/new-gt3-bundle.57215/page-2#post-908282
 
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As a big rFactor 2 fan, I really feel for S-397, who I am sure are working as hard and as fast as they can to update a game that has generally been way ahead of the competition in car physics, FFB, tire model, the things that provide the core of a true racing sim, and this together with the fabulous modders are what seems to have kept the rFactor 2 'tifosi' standing by them. But they are way behind in all the other aspects of the game play and dynamics, and with the release of pCars 2 this has only become more glaringly obvious.

I was introduced to sim racing by pCars 1, who should be credited for introducing a whole new group of people to the sim racing world. Once I discovered rF2 I realized how bad pCars was at the core fundamentals of a sim, but with other aspects of the game they where and still are ahead of most other respected sims. Now I haven't tried pCars2 yet, but I have heard a lot of good things about it from drivers I respect, so for many sim racers like me who only have time for one sim, with all the practice, the setup work, etc, required to race competitively in a league, as much as I admire S-397s efforts, the market is moving much faster than they appear to be.

I really want this sim to succeed and attract the new players they need to make this commercially viable, so I agree with the sentiments of many here, we need more details, more realistic and definite dates, and way more in the general package, so I don't have to rely on modders to provide basic content.

I am currently racing with a really great league in rF2, but I fear that once I try pCars2, and whilst I am sure that rF2 still has them beat on the core fundamentals, if for me they are good enough, then as they are so far ahead with everything else I am not sure I will make my way back to rF2 for a while, or be buying anymore of the DLCs, etc, which I am sure they need to support the ongoing development.

So come on S-397, as @burgesji says above, give all of us who want you to succeed a clearer vision.
 
SPASKIS said:
This has been repeated several times.
How if the initial release date was September, can there still be issues regarding permissions?

I would like to know which will be the content that I paid for and was due today.
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Don't you worry. It's 8 PM in Europe, they still have four hours to release it on time (on a Saturday evening) :p
Maybe they are negotiating to get permissions for a Chevrolet Corvette to go alongside the Callaway Corvette ?
 
I understand your point, but i bet against you for the following reasons!

Building up a dev group takes a lot of time and it also needs some time to make all of them work together efficiently. In one year the whole product will not remind you to rF2s initial release anymore. If you would name it differently you wouldnt knew its rFactor(2) based then.

- the entire hud will be replaced
- the entire gui will be replaced

both html/css/js which means hundreds of modders with some simple web-based knowledge will be able to modifiy it by their needs.

- weather graphics improvements
- general graphics improvements
- performance improvements
- get rid of launcher
- probably support to newer studio max versions
- new physics features
- new competition system
- new content, both cars/series and tracks

Hell thats all we were crying for for about five years and we will probably get it within one year. The new gui will kick ass, i promise!
 
There's much more to the ui than just graphical updates as stated in one of the last roadmaps,and I've seen a video I'm sure where marcel said every car is finished and just awaiting approval
 
SPASKIS said:
This has been repeated several times.
How if the initial release date was September, can there still be issues regarding permissions?

I would like to know which will be the content that I paid for and was due today.

If no info is given info about the remaining two cars, I find it very very improbable that the full pack will be available at the end of October.

Considering past dates it is taking about 6-8 weeks to finish a car. Bentley seems to be in testing phase and work on Corvette seems to have started at least in the 3D part. I find it very unlikely to have the GT pack before the end of November.

The September call was never realistic IMO but a marketing move to increase sales for the DLC bundle. Is this a good symptom?

I already found very unlikely that we could have it for September almost two months ago and I was called negative.
https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/new-gt3-bundle.57215/page-2#post-908282
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Again, it seems that you didn't watch the video. I feel that they should link the video in the road map to set a few things straight that you confused once again. (@Marcel Offermans)

The cars are all ready now with BOP and fine tuning being done and waiting for the approval from the manufacturers. So I don't get where you have the information from that they have just started with the 3D part of the Corvette. ;)
 
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hitm4k3r said:
Again, it seems that you didn't watch the video. I feel that they should link the video in the road map to set a few things straight that you confused once again. (@Marcel Offermans)

The cars are all ready now with BOP and fine tuning being done and waiting for the approval from the manufacturers. So I don't get where you have the information from that they have just started with the 3D part of the Corvette. ;)
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I believe in what I see. I've seen Bentley in a video and a teaser from Corvette. We'll see when they finally come out. It's up to you to believe what they said.

They also said September and it wasn't true. We don't even have the names of the remaining cars. Does it make sense for a small team to work in 4 cars at the same time? From the experience in the past NO.
 
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