ISI vs S397 Physics Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by LokiD, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    would love to know if there's any truth in this, been complaining about this for years!. Could explain the boost of low forces we have now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  2. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Doesn't matter whether there is or isn't... you can tune it to meet your expectations.
     
  3. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Did you setup them in order to have an equal wear of tires of both axles as is needed to be competitive in endurance races?
    I have seen telemetry of very good endurance racers, they obtain near perfect wear of four tires and run with very low aero.
    Cars setup this way are far less forgiving to drive, and a real challenge.

    Cheers.
     
  4. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    I have noticed a clear shift in character in the cars as well.
    Haven't really spent much time with the GT500 because I haven't had to race it anywhere and the laps I drove with it ,well, let's just say I found it boring.
    The Radical I wouldn't mind not driving again.
    The 650S had similar feel to the Radical, however these characteristics were now put together in a much more enjoyable package.
    The Radical GT3 I drove last night I enjoyed a lot and found quite challenging as well.
    One thing I cannot put my finger on is why I can feel the car on the brakes so much better on the ISI cars vs the S397s.
    Granted I have a T150 with stock pedals.
    And I will never know if better brake pedals will make a difference until I actually try them.
    But while on ISI cars I could go hardcore with the braking power and modulate the brake pedal, in the 650S and now the Radical GT3 I find myself having to make the brakes weak to act as an artificial anti-locking solution.
    Because I can't feel shit braking on the limit:(
    Even so I feel I am happy with the GT3s, both in terms of driver satisfaction as well as driving challenge.
    So will not complain and I can always default back to the ISI Camaro or the Formula ISI for some pure action and some sweaty palms.
    But don't think I will have to, these GT3s are a blast to drive and can be quite sensational when attacking real hard.
     
  5. oppolo

    oppolo Registered

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    GT3 class has ABS and TC allowed, I binded 2 buttons on my control for handling with these
     
  6. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Exactly, which cars are you referring to.
    S397 has only released USF2000, Radical and GT3 pack.

    To which equivalent ISI ones do you compare?
    Is the difference in FFB or in car behaviour Physics? Or both? Can you extend on this?

    We have seen that tire model greatly affects FFB as Civic medium tires have proven. Their behaviour change when driving on the limit is what can be perceived as physics change. Properly adjusting tires is IMO the toughest part in a sim. Mainly due to the difficulty to do a proper validation of it. The rest is pretty much objective.

    I wouldn't therefore talk about physics or FFB. IMO everything is related to tire behaviour.
     
  7. Tom Lebeuf

    Tom Lebeuf Registered

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    I don't find the new gt3 cars to be any easier than say, the c6 vette from ISI. The ffb in the new pack feels phenomenal to me and the Calloway and AMG are cars I could drive forever. Great job. The only issue I have is the way the cars were released, as it really felt poorly planned.
    Visually I think the URD mod is superior, but man, the tires and driving experience of these new gt3 cars is really impressive. Worth every penny. Engine sounds are good, but not R3E good.
     
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  8. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I would not be surprised if they anticipated the release of this package because they cannot stand all the fuss about the delay, but I think they learned quickly that once the pack was released, bitches just changed the focus of their bitching. :D
    Lesson learned? :D
     
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  9. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    You are not helping RF2 at all by implying that when a product is faulty it is the customer that is wrong in complaining, I am sorry, if RF2 is where it is, it's not due to bitching by users on the forum, but on it's merits and faults. Some will say there was no commitment to dates from S397, but our money was instantly due.

    The lesson they should have learned if they don't want to go out of business soon, is that you cannot sell a product that isn't finished, or at lower standards than other cheaper pay mods or free mods.

    And if you are obliged to do so (due to some circumstances ), instead of saying "we are proud or of", you should in the release of the product say something like this:
    " We are sorry, we have been unable to reach the committed delivery date, so we release a preliminary version with those known problems - here list of known problems -, so that all buyers that supported our project and trusted us by buying this pack, can enjoy the cars as they are, and report their feedback. We are working hard to bring this pack to the quality standards you can expect from us.

    This way, I would feel like a customer, not a stupid cash flow provider.

    Cheers.
     
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  10. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Lgel You often make good points, but no one's money has ever been due. If you pay for something that isn't yet released, without a commitment (and I mean an agreement; something you can get your money back for [as an option] if not met) to a specific date, you've actually lost your bargaining power. If you don't want to pay for something that might get delayed, or might get released in a state you feel is unfinished, or to your knowledge might never meet the standard you expected, you shouldn't pay for it.
     
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  11. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Sorry the moment I bought the pack the money was instantly due.
    I trust the company, as I have written, I understand problems, I can at least expect some respect.
    Cheers.
     
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  12. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I think its a problem of self entitlement, special snowflaking and excessive expectations from the customer base than a general fault of Studio397. The new developer made a lot of work without your money, but with theirs (as you like probably most user here bought RF2 under ISI flag). They owe you very little, yet in this year they released more content and more improvement than ISI in the last 2 years (probably more). Despite some glitches here and there, playing experience has steadly improved, again, for free for most of us. Now they relelased their first DLC, and it looks like they are now your sex slaves, and should commit to death like japanese samurais. We already know that further improvements are down the pipe, and we will receive them (again) for free. Yet, you value your 15$ (the price of a pizza and a beer) as a life loyalty to your expectations. They delivered the promised package, the package is working and well made, yes, not perfect or 100% complete (skins) , but they already know, and will release them. They are now free men, they owe you nothing more. Next time a DLC will be published, you will decide if your money worth it, end of the argument.
     
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  13. Stan

    Stan Registered

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    @Lazza
    @Comante
    You are dishonest guys, as you know, the blind buy was made to encourage S397 in which we believed... it just prove that we were wrong, "end of the argument"!
     
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  14. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I'm fine and dandy with it, I bought the package thinking that I wouldn't even tried it more than once. The package is well made and playable, and I think I will play it despite being an open wheeler guy.
    Read again tha part about "excessive expectations".
    p.s. I don't think my argument is dishonest, you think you paid for 5 cars, but you paid for DX11, VR, POST EFFECTS, SEVERAL TRACKS, SEVERAL CARS, RAIN, OFFLINE CHAMPIONSHIP, NEW INTERFACE, NEW MULTIPLAYER PROJECTS.. and the list is probably longer. Am I still the dishonest one here?
     
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  15. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Do not "fight with it". The forum will not be healthy otherwise.

    Everyone has these opinions. We well understood that even the right arguments in one direction or the other are misunderstood.

    I'm worried that we can not talk about much more important things about the future of rf2:

    a really simple example and sorry to come back but I launched a topic on this forum really interesting.

    I had said that there are only two ways that rf2 evolves in the right direction within a reasonable time:

    - enlarge the team and have more money (so not for soon)
    - Strongly prioritize the next development and intelligently .

    It is by thinking of this second point that I have created my subject.

    Really the content of my post was interesting and I encouraged other users to do the same.

    Result: by a number of users I was disowned, snubbed, misunderstood, treated negatively, criticized. One comment was even sarcastic.

    In short, how a good intention can be spoiled by some guys.

    https://forum.studio-397.com/index....on-according-to-the-users-of-rfactor-2.57886/
     
  16. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    dadaboomda, I don't think it's our business to discuss their business decisions and priorities. I guess they know their job, otherwise I would be in their place. I hope they will do the best, if they fail, they will lose much more than me, so I guess they are far more committed to do the right thing than us.
     
  17. Stan

    Stan Registered

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    @Comante
    As a lot of us, I bought rf2 a second time just to sustain S397 move, priorly to any update.
    The fullsceen/stuttering bugs made me revert to dx9 (as a lot of us), so no post processing for us, an unfinished Zandvoort v0.2, an unfinished car (the free Radical), an unfinished DLC, I am still not able to run a server (as a lot of us), and there is still no new ui.
    And dx11 lucky users can't use any plugin...
    So yes, you are still dishonest!
     
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  18. Marc Brink

    Marc Brink Registered

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    I don't want/need to be paying again for the features you've mentioned.
    Do I need to remind you that I've already paid €70 for a game (incl. lifetime licence) lacking in almost every area?
    The day S397 took over from ISI, they've obliged themselves to take over the developement for free to make this game a succes.
    Certainly it's still lacking, as they can't live up to their promises.
    So yes, your being dishonest here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
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  19. Stan

    Stan Registered

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    @Comante (again)
    Couldn't you just stop giving lessons to anyone who express his opinion/problem?
     
  20. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Sure. Done.
     

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