ISI vs S397 Physics Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by LokiD, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    191
    Obviously this isn't to start any bad mouthing of each party involved, but more to have mature discussion about the differences and opinions of each physics direction.

    I think we can safely say that there is a slight difference (especially in ffb) between ISI and s397s cars, and this could be as Tim quoted "working more closely with manufacturers" to be the cause of this. I also think maybe s397s cars are more forgiving at the limit, which doesnt always mean these are not realistic. Also obviously the cars created by each have their own characteristics so, its not a completely fair test in all.

    With the general direction of sims lately and the more realistic approach (being that cars are actually drivable at the limit), i truly believe that a hardcore sim experience doesnt mean the car is impossible to drive - and s397 have maybe got closer to realism than ISI have IMO.

    The end of the day we cant thank ISI enough to set the ground/base for an amazing sim, and pretty much set the benchmark for other sims to follow, just maybe rf2 has evolved into something more realistic in terms of physics. It would be nice to maybe see an overhaul of physics in the older cars. Although this would mean a closer look at the manufacturers data, which most likely is inaccessible now.

    Anyway please discuss away and keep it civil..
     
  2. bwana

    bwana Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,631
    Likes Received:
    408
    Or perhaps its the evolution of the tire model ?
     
    Oldseb, Travis, Korva7 and 3 others like this.
  3. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    191
    have s397 changed the tyre model that much? I do see incremental improvements but the new cars feel like on a whole new model..
     
  4. Comante

    Comante Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    261
    I think they simply tuned the FFB thinking that most RF2 user have commercial wheels and not DD.
     
  5. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    72
    In fact 90% of users have "commercial wheels" for sure ;)
     
  6. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    93
    Interesting topic.

    I feel that the ISI team is almost the same as S397. If this is the case it is good news for the cars, the improvement of the physics / ffb (bad news on other aspects).

    But for now I still remain very skeptical that all S397 cars are up to ISI standards. Indeed I for example found the nissan gt500 really very bad. In addition, it took the 3rd version of the mclaren gt3 to obtain a version up to the standards of ISI.

    I have not tested the 4 new gt3 in v1: so I can not do so on this topic any more comments.
     
  7. Emery

    Emery Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,901
    Likes Received:
    521
    I see two things happening:
    1) S397 has converged on tire parameters that ISI was on the verge of obtaining as the tire model evolved.
    2) S397's default setups are more desireable, probably as a result of the staff being from a more enthusiast background. Could also be from more manufacturer input.
     
  8. Prodigy

    Prodigy Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    910
    Likes Received:
    28
    Wanted to say the same thing.
    I don't think they are messing with the physics and data received from manufactures, skewing numbers or something like that.
    It's probably the car setup that is more stable to drive.
    This isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially for the newcomers to RF2, not knowing much about car setup.
     
    Emery likes this.
  9. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    72
    I allways had the idea that ISI had the calculations and the programming, building a solid base software, but they were never good on doing cars, sorry but that's my opinion. Lots of times modders did a much better job than those official content from ISI, for years, rF1 included! Guess studio397 are doing a better job, like Emery said, maybe they're having more input, having evolved the CPM and understand the car better!

    Hope rain physics comes in the same path as the dry behaviour...
     
  10. stonec

    stonec Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    2,403
    Likes Received:
    600
    The same guys build cars and their physics for S397 as were building for ISI, so unless they suddenly become schizophrenic and their new persona started to favour simcade physics over sim physics, this discussion doesn't make much sense.
     
    Ho3n3r, Will Mazeo and Davvid like this.
  11. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,004
    Likes Received:
    241
    Source?
     
    Rui Santos and dadaboomda like this.
  12. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    93
    This discussion does not have any sens if ISI = S397 for car content and physics.

    But stonec, most users do not know that.

    So the guy who launched this topic did not throw a beast topic based on what he knew, on the contrary. ;)
     
  13. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    5,503
    Likes Received:
    942
  14. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,004
    Likes Received:
    241
  15. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    5,503
    Likes Received:
    942
    #DontShootTheMessenger
     
  16. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    22
    my opinion is that the S397 GT 500 Nissan is a very good car.
    but on the ither hand i play with a very old wheel steering wheel, i mean really old one
    (logitech wingman formula force GP FFB).
    the game is very enjoyable even with that old steering wheel.
    haven't try the new GT cars yet.
     
  17. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

    Joined:
    May 22, 2014
    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    63
    And i like GT 500 Nissan with osw.
     
  18. stonec

    stonec Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    2,403
    Likes Received:
    600
    You can just look at the credits list when you close rF2 and add 1+1. Michael Borda (the guy who maintained the physics blog) and Marek Lesniak (posts here on forum sometimes) were both with ISI and are still listed. I can't say with 100% they haven't hired more guys, but it doesn't make much sense as their entire team is 14 members, which includes non-developers like Tim Wheatley. The car team of course has other people that do texture work etc.
     
  19. Mulero

    Mulero Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    89
    For me there is a clear change in physics since s397 took command. Cars are much easier to drive, more permissive in the limit. I have not tried the latest GT3, but all the other cars launched by S397 feel this way.

    Changes in the setup do not change that feeling and other cars feel good, so I think it is something related to the tires.

    ISI cars feel more realistic in my opinion and above all, they are much more fun to drive. I can be going laps and laps that I never get bored. Things always happen. Any small change in driving style has its consequence.

    S397 cars feel very good at first contact but I get bored right away from them. All the turns are the same, no matter how you drive, it does not seem to affect to a great extent how the car reacts or the times, as there is a great constancy in the lap.
     
  20. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    93
    I will try again ;) with t500rs
     
    Korva7 likes this.

Share This Page