Is there no interest in the 60's F1 cars?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ricknau, May 26, 2012.

  1. Kknorpp001

    Kknorpp001 Banned

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    Would you care to elaborate?
     
  2. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead Staff Member

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    Actually you can shift with both sequential or standard H without using the clutch, no matter you're using an auto or a manual clutch...
     
  3. Kknorpp001

    Kknorpp001 Banned

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    Makes sense. So is ISI planning to fix? I use clutch and am competitive but I know others online are not using clutch and this is huge advantage but for me using clutch is part of driving so I use the clutch. For rf1 there is enforcement online via upgrade chosen but not sure how enforced or if people can cheat. Very interested in this. ISI what is plan for this?
     
  4. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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    You can change without using the clutch in real cars too (I rarely do when driving street car, good rev matching where gears engage smoother than your average person using a clutch manages is pretty easy after you stop being worried and tensing about it too much), in racing cars it's usually much preferred to not use the clutch (no clutch wear), and even in the 60s they really didn't use the clutch all that much after the start. Rev matching and racing dog boxes are a good combination.

    That's not to say ISI shouldn't put in a function like the GrindingTranny plugin for rFactor, though I have no doubt it'd be pretty easy for someone to remake the plugin for rF2 even now.
     
  5. tjc

    tjc Member

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    T`would seem Mr. Tuttle has elaborated on my behalf (which is fine) so I don`t really have to.

    :)
     
  6. tjc

    tjc Member

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    But I will lol...

    I look at rf2 and any other proper sim like this:

    If I`m driving a 60`s F1, F2 or F3 car then I use the manual clutch, as they did in that real time period. (I know they sometimes didn`t use the clutch as jubuttib has said but a clutch was used and certainly the heel `n` toe method was used more often than not in real life) so therefor I do what they did back then...

    If I`m driving the new 2012 F2 car then I use the clutch for take off`s etc and also keeping the engine going when I spin off but obviously don`t use it on gear changes as the real car doesn`t do this as far as I`m aware...

    When driving rf2 I do so in the manner they did/do in real life... no point imo driving a 60`s F3 car at Spa using auto clutch or clutch off and changing with the paddles and then saying your fast... go do it the right way using proper gear changes etc and then tell me your fast. Just my opinion but it`s the way I do it.

    I wouldn`t really be very happy to find out I`d had a race with guys in the 60`s cars that were using auto clutch and aids etc... what`s the point?

    :confused:

    I hope that ISI will implement a proper "working" clutch into rf2 as it`s a must have for a realistic sim imo, as I`ve already said. :)
     
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  7. argo0

    argo0 Registered

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    I couldn't agree more
     
  8. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    I have not tried to enable many of the aids, but an occasional missed button push has shown me that some aids are impossible to turn on with the 60's cars. You get a message saying that the car wasn't equiped with that aid. I usually notice this as I am exiting the pits and go to turn off my pit limiter which of course was not on to begin with :)
     
  9. elbo

    elbo Registered

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    My issue isn't so much with shifting as mis-shifting...especially during downshifts. If you have ever played with a gated shifter on rfactor with grinding tranny enabled you know what I mean.
    With the original rfactor you could shift at will with or without the clutch with no penalty for bad shifts, which is what rfactor2 is like now also.
    Compare that to rfactor with grinding tranny, tighten up the rev matching and you are in for a treat...and alot of grinding :)
     
  10. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Because you have no feel in the shifter to determine when the best time to drop into gear is, rev matching is imo useless. I am a professional truck driver and only use a clutch when I am stopping and starting off. The rest of the time it is all about rev matching. Without being able to feel when the shifter is ready to move into a gear, for me it would be impossible to not grind. You can't feel wheel speed, you can't feel the transmission, all you can feel is a disconnected shifter.
     
  11. buddhatree

    buddhatree Registered

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    This ^ +1
     
  12. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Hey buddhatree, that avatar for breast cancer awareness? ;)
     
  13. osella

    osella Registered

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    I would of course love this too but theres one big problem with online play: all the people who do not have the clutch pedal. How are they supposed to join a server that forces full manual clutch?
    One solution would be for rf2 to detect what wheel you have and if you dont have the pedal youd be allowed to use autoclutch but then not everyone is playing by the same rules anyway.
     
  14. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    I am content by having realistic clutch behaviour when I choose to, people who dont have clutch or gears can choose auto, people who have gears but no clutch can choose auto clutch.

    This is not a problem of joining a server, the problem is there is no realistic clutch atm.
     
  15. osella

    osella Registered

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    I know, but the problem is that if people can choose clutch aid when playing online, many will use paddles no matter what which makes it very frustrating to use realistic shifting and putting yourself in disadvantage. If everyone should play with the same rules, the autoclutch aid off would force you to use the pedal but then arises the problem I talked about above.

    But even if only for single player sake, we badly need proper shift behavior...!
     
  16. privatebrian

    privatebrian Registered

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    hmm...unfortunately i only have a two pedal setup...what would you like me to do, assign the brake as
    clutch and have no brake?....:p :)
     
  17. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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    Auto Clutch gives only a small advantage when all is said and done, Nicos I believe uses H gate with clutch and I use paddles and auto...still cant catch him LOL. Unfortunately my fanatec H gate is a pile of poo otherwise I would be using it for cars that have one...
     
  18. osella

    osella Registered

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    Thats what I was talking about 2 posts ago. Rf2 would have to differentiate on allowing auto clutch based on your wheel.

    The thing about manual shifting being more difficult is not a difference in laptimes, this can be literally zero if you shift really fast and never make mistakes, but thats where the fun is - if you DO make a mistake it costs you a lot of time at the least. And if you miss downshift.. it can cost you whole race...
     
  19. argo0

    argo0 Registered

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    We can already choose whether to use clutch or not. Some servers allow aids, some only allow some aids and some are no aids allowed. This is all fine.

    What isn't fine is the current implementation of the clutch. For an ambitious racing simulator, its a joke. I realise of course that we're only in beta but I hope its sorted soon.

    Have ISI ever even mentioned the clutch? I would hope so. It would be a bit strange if they haven't and are expecting thousands of sim racers to just not mind!
     
  20. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    No, they havent afaik. Maybe its a hardware problem?
     

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