It is an edge case, true. I haven't done a track for rF 2 yet, so I don't know exactly how it works, but couldn't this become a problem on tracks with multiple layouts like Mills? I mean in the areas where there's a fork in the road and 2 different track sections are starting, let's say in a corner. To which direction will the realroad texture be aligned to? To both? Sorry to ask, but I haven't tried myself yet. That sounds like an interesting idea. This could get rid of the "cross striped" look when you are constantly driving in a 90° angle to the track's direction like in DmitryRUS's examples. Good point. I do believe he understood what realroad does, the only thing which was lost in translation was the point that he asks for a different method of how this tech (even it the functionality stays per vertex, which will most probably be the case) could be visualised in a different way. Personally I don't have a problem with the current look except that I think it's too intense on the straights.
there are clearly three seperaste issues here 1) having a road that dries out and changes grip on a line that tires go on 2) How the above is represented visualy 3) High detail tire marks , skids and specifc ware thats simply visually and dos not really change physics ( but still acts as guide to other racers and adds to the visual finish of the game) - For 1 RF2 works or will work fine when its finished and its a good solution as they have it and probably best feture or biggest USP of RF2 - For 2 It is down to the track maker or texture artist to make the gradually revealed rubber texture/road layer look nice maybe ISI can add more layers to it or just improve the visual execution of it better or ISI can develop a better blending method / shader for it. - For 3 RF2 is not very good when it comes to high detail skid marks compared to some other games on the market. The biggest issue at the moment i think simply comes from two factors 1) the skid marks disappear very soon to the piont that you can watch them disappear as the decal limit is reached 2) the skid marks have a lack of variety to them in shape and colour/alpha. All in all ISI have focused on the functional side first which is the most important aspect for a simulator. There is allso no piont messing around with art until the foundation it sits on is near finished. They can mess around with the specifc visual exicution of it later when the technical aspect of tire physics or technical aspect of the grip levels of real road are finished. To me its the sort of thing thats better refined after the game has gone gold and more important issues are solved ( mind you talking about anything can be fun)
They should have influence on physics (grip) and be part of RealRoad technology. Every piece an amount of rubber layed down on track should be taken into account, regardless if its just some skids from burnouts or regular best line throughout a race.
Of course it should! But if it's technically possible is another question. I think today this isn't an option because it will eat up way too much bandwidth/server and client processing power. By the way, is this what you meant ethone? But of course this isn't an accurate example because the realroad is not painted per vertex, hehe. But it clearly shows the difference a different texture will make.
Yes, I do not like pictures RACEGROOVE. I just can not put this layer so RACEGROOVE at these sites and I think it is better to find out, will this fix, or just need to suffer from spline MapChannel 3 RACEGROOVE
Yes, I understand that too. That's why I told him to use blank racegroove texture twice allready Finally some good examples. Yes, first one has nothing to do with real road technology - these are just skidmarks, which are also supported by rF2. Perhaps we could have bigger buffer for these, to stay longer on track, but that's it. The last example is finally something we can compare to real road in rF2. As you can see it has no racegroove texture and you would see something similar if you would use subtle racegroove texture in rF2. Perhaps with different resolution, but it would be more less the same thing. The key thing here is - in LFS this rubber does not affect physics. It's just a visual effect. What difference does it make? Huge difference. If something is just a graphical effect, you can draw it using GPU with high quality and only send some general information over network. If it affects physics, then for the sake of fair play it must be passed accurately over network. And this is what real road in rF2 really is - a physical representation of changes in road surface. Not just a graphical effect. Perhaps in future, ISI can implement additional visual representation that will work next to physical one. Small differences between machines or delayed updates would be acceptable this way. But for now - what we see is a graphical representation of underlying physical properties. So it's not pretty, but does it's job of informing the driver of road conditions. You need to be smarter about your racegroove texture. Who says you can only repeat one on entire track? Map different texture to that specific area and draw skids in both directions there. Nothing stops you from doing that. Yeah, but if you think of it - they actually do allready. Apart from creating a visual skidmark, burning tyres also adds to that low-res grid of real road at the same time. I don't think we need physics engine to change grip levels when you're going over individual skidmark, but just reproduce properties of given "square meter" of a road. That "square meter" would become smaller and smaller in future simulators, but it allready contains accumulated effect of burning rubber over it's surface.
But rFactor2 does have individual skid marks, too... AFAIK the skid textures, etc, aren't final. It's only recently that slicks stopped leaving treaded skidmarks I think...
OK. Someone go do doughnuts on the corner of a wide track for a couple minutes then drive the track and see if the realroad alters the grip in that corner in accordance with where the marbled rubber SHOULD be. That is the best I can come up with.
FYI just raced the 370z at Mid Ohio (if the track makes any difference!) and the skid marks are treaded.
is not the best reception, drawing thousands of textures for one is not a large area, where to draw the tire You can do the skidmarks to remain always had a grip RealRoad?
They should, because if you take 20 cars, braking hard into every corner of every lap throughout a few hour race - that's what in the end creates more rubbered braking zones. Of course, in real life you usually don't lock tyres completly but it would be strange if, for example, on specific corner entry where everyone locks inner wheel a bit and that wide strip drawed by locked wheels have no influence on grip over time. But that brings another question - if we don't want skidmarks affecting grip, then what does? Does the fact, we just driving a specific line, should be the only reason there will be noticably higher grip? No. That would be not enough in real life (that's why you won't see much best line drawed by cars on straights) and so in rF 2 - should also be not enough.
I got the feeling everyone is discussing a different thing. And I think Dimitry doesn't understand realroad in the first place. Realroad is a physics based system that changes grip levels of the road, BASED on where cars drive on the track. Making the grip level increase in the area's where the cars are driving most of the time. The visual representation of this system is done with the Racegroove texture. This texture can be painted with lines, scrubs, patterns BUT CAN ALSO be painted in a more universal way with 'just' a rubber color with some noise in it. This way the realroad texture is more correct when you drive the survace at another angle then along the track. Then there are skidmarks. Skidmarks are there just like in rF1. And they behave the same way. I believe there isn't a difference in grip on skidmarks and I don't think this is doable in this resolution. HOWEVER, when you make a lot of skidmarks in a certain area, the grip level in that area (although with a lower resolution) will increase much faster. Realroad grip increases faster in areas where you abuse your tyres, opposed to areas where you don't abuse your tyres.
I've already done this, it took a lot of time to paint texture, it is more than 30 small textures, the principle is very similar to the map Racegroove. I was hoping to work RealRoad, that the visual part of this system will be able to revive the unique run of the day of arrival to the fabric of asphalt, soil, security zones, etc. ... But it was worn asphalt is painted at once, and from the races for different classes of machines, it looks the same. I understand that this RealRoad, just discussing the visual part of the layer Racegroove texture, that it should be possible to monochrome, but not in the form of texture bands that bring down the overall impression of the trajectory, where the roll forward more and where less.
Are you saying that when car locks wheels, real road tehnology gets temporarily disabled and no rubber buildup occurs? Because what I'm saying it still receives rubber, only you get additional visual effect of skidmarks on top of it So these skidmarks affect grip, but not at their exact locations, only at given "square meter" of a road, which they pass through.
I don't know what's going on under the hood of current implementation of RealRoad. The only thing I know, is that it builds up where cars drive by. Does tyres already have influence on that or not, I don't know.
To me what I just convinced the realroad is that the whole track just stays rubbered. Under braking and cornering is well implemented, but the straights should not be much rubber or would have to see a line as marked. Another thing I hate is that when one has not yet rolled the track has nothing to grip, seems an ice track. The track should have a bit more grip when it is clean, then the difference with the track rubbered would be a little lower.
Target implementation will be based on what's happening with tyres. Current is not, but it's a temporary state that's bound to change.
In any case, while it is not at all quadrupeds, before the release is still very far away ... and did not know that there will be .. If I am not satisfied with the visual part of the fabric of racing, I'll stay on the rF1, because not so many changes I see in rF2. Physics praktiseski exact same, the schedule for me so far looks worse ... Skidmarks disappear very quickly ... RealRoad works, but does not look nice. Frankly, I thought it would work as well as in KartPRO, traces remain in the corners, and in those places where there were errors, and after a while they brake the traces blur blurred, and the remains of rubber on the scatter povrehnosti, there is and there is a strong hook zolee tires .
Dimitry, This is in no way an offense and I feel bad for saying but try to not use the translator that much. I find it very difficult to understand what you mean because the translation from Russian to English is not really working. I think that the people with English as their native language won't have as much trouble understanding, though. Not an offense at all, I think you're pretty polite anyway. Just try don't try to rely so much on translators..
