Released GTE and Oreca 07 New Tyre Update

Simulation_Player said:
The last tyres were too easy, unrealistically easy... so these new tyres feelings hard is correct step (even though i think they still bit permissive).
I too feel brake locking up earlier but that could just be better ffb , giving me info sooner of brake lockups.
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I find the "too easy" remark a bit ridiculous. I've been practicing for a league race since about a week ago and the new update had erased our progress, which is fine. The previous tires though felt insanely lazy and nervous, with the back end always wanting to kick out and never giving an intuitive and easy experience. These cars are not drift cars in real life, they give some slip angle but like with any modern GT car it's a very sharp peak and going over it will lead to a spin or a general time loss.

The new update is genuinely awful however. There's zero grip on the rear and the tires wear far too easily. At Le Mans you see teams double stinting these tires all the time, however it's impossible to even double stint the mediums. Softs which would be optimal at such a track with not many turns to build pressure and temperature into the rubber completely give up by mid stint, and mediums don't wear much better either.

If these were the same tires they used in real life, 3/4ths of the GTE AM field would not be able to finish the race by even the 1 hour mark. Yet the tire update feels fine on the Oreca 07. Did they just fit on the parameters from the Oreca to the GTE cars and just call it a day?
 
Alex96 said:
That the springs work in different units of measurement is not a problem, but it is illogical and incongruous, but if the engineers say so... otros zangúangos, al parecer...
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Probably even the engineers themselfs think that the designers of the real car are actual "zangüangos" :D

Alex96 said:
Just like the turning of the steering wheel; I can't believe I can't do a complete 360 degree turn? Where did you see that, L0P3X?
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I saw some videos after noticing the new steering rack limit, for example, check how the driver reaches the physical limit (which seems to be exactly the same as it's right now ingame) on La Source here:
 
maikoheart said:
I find the "too easy" remark a bit ridiculous. I've been practicing for a league race since about a week ago and the new update had erased our progress, which is fine. The previous tires though felt insanely lazy and nervous, with the back end always wanting to kick out and never giving an intuitive and easy experience. These cars are not drift cars in real life, they give some slip angle but like with any modern GT car it's a very sharp peak and going over it will lead to a spin or a general time loss.

The new update is genuinely awful however. There's zero grip on the rear and the tires wear far too easily. At Le Mans you see teams double stinting these tires all the time, however it's impossible to even double stint the mediums. Softs which would be optimal at such a track with not many turns to build pressure and temperature into the rubber completely give up by mid stint, and mediums don't wear much better either.

If these were the same tires they used in real life, 3/4ths of the GTE AM field would not be able to finish the race by even the 1 hour mark. Yet the tire update feels fine on the Oreca 07. Did they just fit on the parameters from the Oreca to the GTE cars and just call it a day?
Click to expand...
I'm not keen in any discussion about comparison between real life racing and virtual simracing. But I'd like to comment regarding the real life thing: Drivers can kill soft tyres in 1 lap. They do so during qualification, they push to the max. But they can do full stint with softs only by managing tyres.
Now back to the sim: previous tyre model allows you to push hard with softs for 1h or 2h while keeping laptimes consistent. But with the new tyre model you can use soft for qualy and if you want to use them in the race, you have to manage them, meaning your laptimes will be slower and your driving needs to be more precise and gentile.
I remember in 2017 i have raced with a GT3 mod "BES GT3" which uses a tyre model similar to the new one. the races were 1h long. So some teams pit to change tyres during the race and others don't. teams who change tyres gain back the time lost during the pit stop by attacking hard and teams who don't change tyres they try to keep a reasonable pace and keep the tyres good. There was a real strategic decision to make.
Nowadays simracers used to not care about tyres too much because they were 100% sure that their tyres will last at least 1h.
So with the new tyres, you need to work more seriously on your strategy, your setup and your driving style. This is what we have been asking for.
 
maikoheart said:
I find the "too easy" remark a bit ridiculous. I've been practicing for a league race since about a week ago and the new update had erased our progress, which is fine. The previous tires though felt insanely lazy and nervous, with the back end always wanting to kick out and never giving an intuitive and easy experience.
Click to expand...
that is not tyre most likely, that was broken aero.
now tyres are actually edgy while aero is more realistic.

maikoheart said:
The new update is genuinely awful however. There's zero grip on the rear and the tires wear far too easily. At Le Mans you see teams double stinting these tires all the time, however it's impossible to even double stint the mediums. Softs which would be optimal at such a track with not many turns to build pressure and temperature into the rubber completely give up by mid stint, and mediums don't wear much better either.

If these were the same tires they used in real life, 3/4ths of the GTE AM field would not be able to finish the race by even the 1 hour mark. Yet the tire update feels fine on the Oreca 07. Did they just fit on the parameters from the Oreca to the GTE cars and just call it a day?
Click to expand...
if you haven't seen this >
https://streamable.com/dt6q6l
as you can see rear have enough grip to slide continuously in 3-4 corners, that was done on P1 wing too. it can't get any easier than this sorry, it is already seems to need tweaks.
both tyre wise and aero wise (yaw sensitivity).
As for wear i didn't drive enough, honestly what matter most if tyres matching IRL handling behavior first then wear behavior can be bit off and it will still be more enjoyable and realistic.
 
Simulation_Player said:
that is not tyre most likely, that was broken aero.
now tyres are actually edgy while aero is more realistic.


if you haven't seen this >
https://streamable.com/dt6q6l
as you can see rear have enough grip to slide continuously in 3-4 corners, that was done on P1 wing too. it can't get any easier than this sorry, it is already seems to need tweaks.
both tyre wise and aero wise (yaw sensitivity).
As for wear i didn't drive enough, honestly what matter most if tyres matching IRL handling behavior first then wear behavior can be bit off and it will still be more enjoyable and realistic.
Click to expand...

If you try hard enough you can find almost anything you're looking for. Let's see how it gets driven in competition.
 
sg333 said:
Unrelated but these setups dont show up as for the RSR? I even went into the folder, unblocked them ('files from another computer'), have to go 'show all' to see them?
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try open the setup file in notepad++ and open another setup you made for this car, and compare some class info, maybe there is something wrong. If I remember correctly it orientated from a setup I downloaded a year ago and have altered to my needs and drivingstyle.

its probably this line you have to change something in:
VehicleClassSetting="ELMS_2022 ELMS_2022_GTE ELMS_20_GTE"
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Lazza said:
If you try hard enough you can find almost anything you're looking for. Let's see how it gets driven in competition.
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actually didn't need to try hard at all ;) , but yea lets see how things are at top level. hopefully setup wise realistic approach matters too.
 
Simulation_Player said:
that is not tyre most likely, that was broken aero.
now tyres are actually edgy while aero is more realistic.
if you haven't seen this >
https://streamable.com/dt6q6l
as you can see rear have enough grip to slide continuously in 3-4 corners, that was done on P1 wing too. it can't get any easier than this sorry, it is already seems to need tweaks.
both tyre wise and aero wise (yaw sensitivity).
As for wear i didn't drive enough, honestly what matter most if tyres matching IRL handling behavior first then wear behavior can be bit off and it will still be more enjoyable and realistic.
Click to expand...

Watched the video and, personally, my perception was that:
- you did not seem to be going fast;
- the slides seemed to be induced by a drifting approach to turns - "scandi-flick" - which is something that theoretically can be made with any car.

So, in my opinion, it would/will only be worrying if:

- you can slide while driving on the limit (without losing control);
- the sliding does not overheat and wear the tyres; and
- you don't lose speed while sliding.
 
vava74 said:
Watched the video and, personally, my perception was that:
- you did not seem to be going fast;
- the slides seemed to be induced by a drifting approach to turns - "scandi-flick" - which is something that theoretically can be made with any car.

So, in my opinion, it would/will only be worrying if:

- you can slide while driving on the limit (without losing control);
- the sliding does not overheat and wear the tyres; and
- you don't lose speed while sliding.
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i think i said it in my OP as well, this is a demonstration of ease of over the limit behavior not the fastest possible way.
that being said new tyres still exhibit that excess steering and rear sliding behvior as old tyres. which could be exploited in some specific turns and probably only last of qualifying but this bit is my opinion we will have to see how esports guys do with these new tyres.
also the aero yaw behavior seems bit too forgiving , that i'm skpetical about too.

in rf2 defense you can slide the slick tyres quite a bit as seen this video >


(yes its a cup car, but its 992 version with better aero and ofcourse slicks).
 
MBA_PRO said:
how do you define a realistic approach?
and have had real-life data to compare to?
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yea this is why i used term "realistic approach" and NOT said that these car HAVE to match IRL setup.
edit : for some cars u can find what works IRL by looking around blogs and talking with real engineers who worked on these car etc , then u simply compare what works in a given sim by doing test by yourself and ofcourse looking at what aliens are doing.
ofcourse there are variables that you can't know but its better than nothing , especially better than just sitting around and accepting whatever is thrown at you....i can't detach my brain while playing a sim...i take this seriously.
 
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Simulation_Player said:
yea this is why i used term "realistic approach" and NOT said that these car HAVE to match IRL setup.
edit : for some cars u can find what works IRL by looking around blogs and talking with real engineers who worked on these car etc , then u simply compare what works in a given sim by doing test by yourself and ofcourse looking at what aliens are doing.
ofcourse there are variables that you can't know but its better than nothing , especially better than just sitting around and accepting whatever is thrown at you....i can't detach my brain while playing a sim...i take this seriously.
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Yes we always need to criticize and be curious..otherwise, things won't improve.
Do you know that detached front ARB in an LMP2 car is often done in real life?
 
Thanks for the interest L0P3X, but the video is from 2019 so I decided to search on my own.
Here I can see that Alpine LMP1 turns to the right more than 180 degrees to avoid the Glickenhaus who has spun; and I think LMP1 and LMP2 share a chassis (same wheelbase and width?) and it seems strange to me that the Alpine can have a minimum 380 degree turn and an LMP2 does not.
Watch this video between 1h:59:30 and 1h:59:40 and set the playback speed to 0.25 =>
 
MBA_PRO said:
real data is extremely confidential and very hard to get. So I try to enjoy the sim as much as I can, it has so many great aspects that cover any lack of realism. The real thing about any sim is to finish the race first if you can.
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The user manual of the car suggests a setup where the front ARB setting is D22 S-S, which provides a ground stiffness of 241.5 N/mm. Softest setting available is nowhere near detached state, so you can with confidence, even with basic knowledge about tyres and aerodynamics, that running detached anti-roll (or soft roll stiffness in general) is very silly in a car with high aero. This thing with soft suspension is a game issue, which has existed for a long time.

Alex96 said:
Thanks for the interest L0P3X, but the video is from 2019 so I decided to search on my own.
Here I can see that Alpine LMP1 turns to the right more than 180 degrees to avoid the Glickenhaus who has spun; and I think LMP1 and LMP2 share a chassis (same wheelbase and width?) and it seems strange to me that the Alpine can have a minimum 380 degree turn and an LMP2 does not.
Watch this video between 1h:59:30 and 1h:59:40 and set the playback speed to 0.25 =>
Click to expand...

It's better to look at onboard from the Oreca07 than assume based on other cars.
Turn 2 at Portimao that looks like full lock.
Turn 1 at Spa looks like full lock.

Only info I have on the steering is that the steering ratio is 13.7. I'd be surprised if the developers didn't get the steering right when they have accurate setup options, engine, aero, etc.
 
MBA_PRO said:
real data is extremely confidential and very hard to get. So I try to enjoy the sim as much as I can, it has so many great aspects that cover any lack of realism. The real thing about any sim is to finish the race first if you can.
Click to expand...
I too enjoy sims even though i know some of their shortcomings, but sometimes shortcomings are way too broken, like how GTE cars were before this update. now i can enjoy them again even if i'm not 100% satisfied with tyres aero and interior etc.
I just wanted to post my findings on new tyres , maybe there is no issue but if there is i wanted help improve , give feedback as a consumer as much i can.
 
Are Oreca's locked in with a fixed steering ratio or can they use different steering boxes to affect different ratios at different tracks?
 
Simulation_Player said:
The last tyres were too easy, unrealistically easy... so these new tyres feelings hard is correct step (even though i think they still bit permissive).
I too feel brake locking up earlier but that could just be better ffb , giving me info sooner of brake lockups.
Click to expand...
Are you a real GT racing car driver?!
 
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