[REL] GP3 SERIES 2016/2017/2018 2.31
- Thread starter Slow Motion
- Start date
Had no idea so much work and care went into this. 
Thank you very much team for sharing this awesome work with us!
Christos Segkounas
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I was wondering if IRL they are suffering from the same amount of aero push that seems to be the case here.
Watching some GP3 racing on Youtube that doesn't seem to be the case.
Also I did watch some online racing with the GP3 mod and they were able to stick their nose under the other guy's gearbox all the time.
So I reckon there's a setup workaround to the pronounced aero push.
Anyone got any general tips in this area they would be appreciated.
I've already been offered a setup from a fellow racer and it transforms the car into something a lot more beautiful.
But the understeer in dirty air is a bit of a mystery to me because I never run into this much of it before and needing to try to reduce it.
Watching some GP3 racing on Youtube that doesn't seem to be the case.
Also I did watch some online racing with the GP3 mod and they were able to stick their nose under the other guy's gearbox all the time.
So I reckon there's a setup workaround to the pronounced aero push.
Anyone got any general tips in this area they would be appreciated.
I've already been offered a setup from a fellow racer and it transforms the car into something a lot more beautiful.
But the understeer in dirty air is a bit of a mystery to me because I never run into this much of it before and needing to try to reduce it.
nultweezes
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Something is definitely up with the aero. You can run the rear wing in the lowest setting and even with DRS it still understeers. Probably a typo in the hdv or something. It's a shame because it seems like they went to great detail for this mod.
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Daniel Surace
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hmmm not sure about that, i run the suggested race aero 5? i believe and i can get a lot of over-steer in corners, but i have heavily modified my setup from stock.
Christos Segkounas
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I didn't know they are obliged to race no more than 5 wing until I was told by a fellow racer.
I think the default setup should be modified to reflect that because people cannot possibly guess.
Because it so happens it's a very good setting as well, car works much better with less rear wing.
Perhaps the author was looking to offer a safe default setup.
Even so, with the rear at 5 and the front wing at a minimum the car still exerts safe understeer.
Though I've come to understand my definition of "safe" may differ greatly to that of other drivers.
@christos_Swc : you say that you use a minimum front wing and decry that the car understeers.
Why don't you use a higher front wing setting to get more downforce at the front and less understeer then?
Or did i understood something wrong?
English is not my native language.
Why don't you use a higher front wing setting to get more downforce at the front and less understeer then?
Or did i understood something wrong?
English is not my native language.
Daniel Surace
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I didn't know the rear wing needed be more the 5* in race either until was told. As people above pointed out, i could only assume you meant minimum front wing as a typo. I did many things to get the car to oversteer. one thing is 28* front wing 5* rear wing. this i used for race testing around Austria, and seem to oversteer enough controllable. I have also lowered Differential coast to around 15% and played with springs/rollbars/rideheight and weight distribution.
Also remember the car is a junior category in a sense. so the cars have a lot of downforce and quiet safe feeling id say.
Christos Segkounas
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Referring to the default setup.
Because being what it is and NOT knowing what they used in real life(like most people do not know it) I got a lot of headache trying to set the car up to turn, just couldn't fathom I have to go for what seemed like a hardcore solution, ultra low wing.
Since setting my wing to 5 (actually was offered such a setup) then no more understeer problems.
What I suggested above was that the default setup, if indeed is using such high rear wing with safety in mind, be switched to a more representative one of real life, with the wing at 5, with no "safety" consequences because if the front wing is also dropped down to at or near minimum will compensate for any oversteer that might trouble very inexperienced simmers.
So you still get the same "safe" understeery setup with a more appropriate rear wing setting as default and then people can go ahead and turn up the front wing if they feel like it.
Because being what it is and NOT knowing what they used in real life(like most people do not know it) I got a lot of headache trying to set the car up to turn, just couldn't fathom I have to go for what seemed like a hardcore solution, ultra low wing.
Since setting my wing to 5 (actually was offered such a setup) then no more understeer problems.
What I suggested above was that the default setup, if indeed is using such high rear wing with safety in mind, be switched to a more representative one of real life, with the wing at 5, with no "safety" consequences because if the front wing is also dropped down to at or near minimum will compensate for any oversteer that might trouble very inexperienced simmers.
So you still get the same "safe" understeery setup with a more appropriate rear wing setting as default and then people can go ahead and turn up the front wing if they feel like it.
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Daniel Surace
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I think that is the characteristic of the car though, it is a lower tier formula. I do not think also in the qualifying they have any restrictions on wing angles only in the race?
Also the difference in Wing angles from Low to High is something like 18*degrees only and remember the option for Low wing is also because these cars race at monza aswell so there probably gives us an extended range to play with.
i generally struggle with cars that under-steer and don't turn in, but this comes down to over pushing the car and you will need to adapt your driving still to suit this "safe" setup or work around and induce over-steer like i have and that is when lap times start to tumble down.
Actually i could argue once tuning the above, these cars are too fast. I have manage a 1:16.8 around Austria and real life this season they manage a 1:19.1. perhaps rubbering in is too extreme.
Also the difference in Wing angles from Low to High is something like 18*degrees only and remember the option for Low wing is also because these cars race at monza aswell so there probably gives us an extended range to play with.
i generally struggle with cars that under-steer and don't turn in, but this comes down to over pushing the car and you will need to adapt your driving still to suit this "safe" setup or work around and induce over-steer like i have and that is when lap times start to tumble down.
Actually i could argue once tuning the above, these cars are too fast. I have manage a 1:16.8 around Austria and real life this season they manage a 1:19.1. perhaps rubbering in is too extreme.
Christos Segkounas
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Low tier doesn't necessarily translate to an inherently understeery car.
There are tech restrictions but the car is built to spec so it comes down to what they want to be building and I do not think the specifications call for understeer just because it's a feeder series.
Exactly, so it's not the characteristic of the car after all.
At some point I came to think that "it is what it is and I will just have to adapt to the style".
But now I know it can be adapted to drive like I would want a car to drive so no prob.
I just don't feel the default setup needs to be such a riddle.
You hear people saying "the car reacts well to every setup change" and all that so you go and take baby steps and end up nowhere and then you realize you have to go overboard with removing rear wing to get it to work.
Daniel Surace
Registered
Lower tier usually translates to safe. And understeering is more safer then oversteer and as I said perhaps I didn't explain properly. If you over push a safe car which way is it going to go? It's going to understeer. A car has to go one way or the other. And considering it's Aero kit and power it's going to understeer more then oversteer imo. And different driving styles will take advantage of that
Perhaps I should have chose my words carefully when I said lap times will tumble. Lap times I can set similar with a range of different setup options. Ultimately I don't think the lap time changes much, it's more what's comfortable for me to achieve that lap. Like all drivers there is a preference in setup. Alonso liked a car that understeered horribly in the Renault days. I'm sure his team mate (trulli) at the time tried to enduce as much oversteer as he could in that car through setup work but ultimately it was designed a specific way.
I'll have to retest to see how much lap times effect as I can't remember but reality it is more creating a setup that suits my style and gives me more confidence.
Slow Motion
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Happy to see this debate about the GP3!
I can add a couple of info (some repeating):
I can add a couple of info (some repeating):
- rear wing value of max 5 degrees must be applied ONLY for race and it is something that wanted the organization to have more spectacular races. Practice and quali are free setting
- the default setup is exactly the one suggested by Dallara as starting setting for each team
- IRL, in effect, Dallara suggested 2 settings, the HDF and the LDF (= High and Low DownForce) that differs only for the front and rear suggested values, not in the range. So, we toke the decision, after few months of tests, to avoid the HDF and LDF options in the tuning because useless
- I'm collecting few more info that Mr.D is writing and testing something more in details. Not easy on my side to understand high tech contents, but in the group there are people like @PLAYLIFE and @Eddy that are much more expert than me and together we are understanding many more things, day by day
- I can anticipate a concept that on our side explains much more the reason of the default understeer: the bias should be moved a little to the rear, "to help car in turning" (Mr.D sentence analyzing - MoTeC - the first laps I sent to him)
Christos Segkounas
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Personally I am enjoying this mod a lot,even more so now that I have found a setup more comfortable to me that will not understeer heavily.
And I have to say I am excited by this ongoing evaluation of the mod by the real life team, as well as the effort put in to improve on it.
Daniel Surace
Registered
These cars are really great to drive once you have them driving to suit ur style. I'd love to do league racing with these or somd organised fun races.
PLAYLIFE
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We are progressing the realism of this vehicle which in conjunction with additional tools is allowing us to deep dive into the finer aspects of the car's physics. The team continues contact with Mr D. to help and guide us into further improving the car and is continually being developed, we want to eek out everything we can out of this!
Additionally, and as already mentioned, to get the best out of the car and fine tuning it to suit your driving style, we highly recommend using some telemetry software. We have been focusing on using the DAMP plugin as created by the brillant @Lazza and over the coming weeks be releasing a workspace that can help anyone who is so inclined to get into the nitty and gritty. Of course the default workspace that comes with the Mo#eC software is already 'at a high level' but there's many other interesting things parameters to look at!
Stay tuned!
Additionally, and as already mentioned, to get the best out of the car and fine tuning it to suit your driving style, we highly recommend using some telemetry software. We have been focusing on using the DAMP plugin as created by the brillant @Lazza and over the coming weeks be releasing a workspace that can help anyone who is so inclined to get into the nitty and gritty. Of course the default workspace that comes with the Mo#eC software is already 'at a high level' but there's many other interesting things parameters to look at!
Stay tuned!
bwana
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Yo da man ( men ) .. then one night you can walk me through motec..
Slow Motion
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Quick update, but very interesting... for a mix of reasons I misunderstood one thing: limitation to 5 degrees max for rear wing in race no longer applies in 2017 championship, due to the introduction of the DRS.
We have also received new detailed info about performances enabling DRS and we are going (@Eddy) to recalculate aero for DRS to match real data. And this fact opens to a new exciting scenario!
Thank you
We have also received new detailed info about performances enabling DRS and we are going (@Eddy) to recalculate aero for DRS to match real data. And this fact opens to a new exciting scenario!
Thank you
Christos Segkounas
Registered
Is there a way to disable drs? It would be nice to have this option for tracks like Oulton that don' t have drs zones. AI cars are using drs after every corner and to keep up with them one needs to click drs button constantly which is not fun.
Maybe to put no-drs option in the tuning?
Maybe to put no-drs option in the tuning?