Christos Segkounas
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Unfortunately we do have that problem with Aussies and the time difference so there's some good people who cannot join us on a regular basis.
[REL] GP3 SERIES 2016/2017/2018 2.31
- Thread starter Slow Motion
- Start date
Slow Motion
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another "little" step in updating 2017 skins, helmets and visors... few shots of Arden and Campos cars by Boxer:
Slow Motion
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Some exciting news, I hope!
Short explanation: you all are invited to post a question regarding the physics, settings, technical info about the GP3 2016 and 2017, that will be forwarded by me to the GP3 Engineer that helped us in the development of the mod.
Long explanation and guidelines: my main concept was to develop a mod that was closest as possible to the real car, that real GP3 drivers could drive for training. I know that obviously there are limitations in the way rFactor2 manages / converts / reads real data to its code, but I’m sure that at the moment no other game / cheap simulator can compete with the accuracy of rFactor2. Knowing that several GP3 teams use rFactor1, the goal was to provide a free accurate mod to be used in rFactor2, to exploit improvements of rF2 vs. rF1. On marketing and commercial side I’m not entitled for debating, so I don’t care for it: my concept was and want to be an opportunity, that’s all.
I was very lucky in finding few people that, loving the concept, were available to share their knowledge participating to the project. And I really must say thanks to all these mates, otherwise the project would only remain a dream.
I still find it difficult to believe that, after countless contacts with the various GP3 teams, a Chief Engineer wanted to focus his attention on this project!
That said, the mod was tuned on the Dallara default HDF setup and we know it is only the basis for starting to find the best setup, depending of track and allowed compound, exactly like it happens in real life. We noticed the car is highly sensitive and any little change gives a different feedback and behavior. Few of you said the car is too much under steer and it could be right, but I asked a lot of times the GP3 Engineer for an answer and every time it pointed my attention to the driving style and to look at a different setup. He cannot reveal (and doesn’t want) any of their setups: this is a must and please, don’t ask for a setup by him!
What I can confirm is that you must always refer to the real car, thinking to drive the real car and to the way of driving the car, not “playing”, like a real driver does… Think that tires must last for the entire race, look at the lap times of the real drivers on a known track with same compounds (refer please to Silverstone GT layout and Hard compound), think that between qualify (where rear wing can be set as you prefer) and race (where rear wing can be set at a max of 5 degrees and obviously many other values must be changed in the setup) there are several seconds of differences… and you will feel and approach the car (ops, the mod) in a totally different way... and also the feeling versus the under steer will be totally different.
We could have developed a mod not so closed to the real car but closer to a game needs: that never was my initial concept, shared by the other components of the group.
With this concept in mind you are welcome to post any question that I’ll take care to send to “Mr. D” (easier way to call the Engineer now on). I cannot assure any time and frequency in receiving the answers, because you understand... at the GP3 team they have other priorities, but I hope that we’ll have some answer.
We are also thinking that could be very interesting if you will attach Motec data and for this reason we’ll post a specific workspace in the future.
Remember for the moment to use ONLY “Silverstone GT layout” and “hard” compound for reference.
Short explanation: you all are invited to post a question regarding the physics, settings, technical info about the GP3 2016 and 2017, that will be forwarded by me to the GP3 Engineer that helped us in the development of the mod.
Long explanation and guidelines: my main concept was to develop a mod that was closest as possible to the real car, that real GP3 drivers could drive for training. I know that obviously there are limitations in the way rFactor2 manages / converts / reads real data to its code, but I’m sure that at the moment no other game / cheap simulator can compete with the accuracy of rFactor2. Knowing that several GP3 teams use rFactor1, the goal was to provide a free accurate mod to be used in rFactor2, to exploit improvements of rF2 vs. rF1. On marketing and commercial side I’m not entitled for debating, so I don’t care for it: my concept was and want to be an opportunity, that’s all.
I was very lucky in finding few people that, loving the concept, were available to share their knowledge participating to the project. And I really must say thanks to all these mates, otherwise the project would only remain a dream.
I still find it difficult to believe that, after countless contacts with the various GP3 teams, a Chief Engineer wanted to focus his attention on this project!
That said, the mod was tuned on the Dallara default HDF setup and we know it is only the basis for starting to find the best setup, depending of track and allowed compound, exactly like it happens in real life. We noticed the car is highly sensitive and any little change gives a different feedback and behavior. Few of you said the car is too much under steer and it could be right, but I asked a lot of times the GP3 Engineer for an answer and every time it pointed my attention to the driving style and to look at a different setup. He cannot reveal (and doesn’t want) any of their setups: this is a must and please, don’t ask for a setup by him!
What I can confirm is that you must always refer to the real car, thinking to drive the real car and to the way of driving the car, not “playing”, like a real driver does… Think that tires must last for the entire race, look at the lap times of the real drivers on a known track with same compounds (refer please to Silverstone GT layout and Hard compound), think that between qualify (where rear wing can be set as you prefer) and race (where rear wing can be set at a max of 5 degrees and obviously many other values must be changed in the setup) there are several seconds of differences… and you will feel and approach the car (ops, the mod) in a totally different way... and also the feeling versus the under steer will be totally different.
We could have developed a mod not so closed to the real car but closer to a game needs: that never was my initial concept, shared by the other components of the group.
With this concept in mind you are welcome to post any question that I’ll take care to send to “Mr. D” (easier way to call the Engineer now on). I cannot assure any time and frequency in receiving the answers, because you understand... at the GP3 team they have other priorities, but I hope that we’ll have some answer.
We are also thinking that could be very interesting if you will attach Motec data and for this reason we’ll post a specific workspace in the future.
Remember for the moment to use ONLY “Silverstone GT layout” and “hard” compound for reference.
Christos Segkounas
Registered
Direct lap time comparison to the real world has a lot of pit falls, I cannot tell if my suicidal driving style is appliccable to real life.
With that in mind and having never driven any of these cars in the real world,beyond my karting carrer of the past, I will take your word for it and not try to be too clever.
So I am satisfied with things "as is" atm and my querry to the chief engineer in question is how satisfied he is with the current itteration of the mod and what sort of feedback has he got from the team drivers, who I assume have tested ithe mod as well and may be using it for practice?
And is he using the mod to test setup changes?
On a final note, I think your efforts in putting together this mod deserve a lot of praise.
With that in mind and having never driven any of these cars in the real world,beyond my karting carrer of the past, I will take your word for it and not try to be too clever.
So I am satisfied with things "as is" atm and my querry to the chief engineer in question is how satisfied he is with the current itteration of the mod and what sort of feedback has he got from the team drivers, who I assume have tested ithe mod as well and may be using it for practice?
And is he using the mod to test setup changes?
On a final note, I think your efforts in putting together this mod deserve a lot of praise.
Will Mazeo
Registered
IMO you did a great job on the car and especially on the base setup. From my experience managing league the % of people tha thave no clue about the basics of setup is too damn big and they tend to not try to drive a car that will try to kill them as soon as they put a foot on the brake.
I wish more people had this approach actually.
I wish more people had this approach actually.
Slow Motion
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@christos_Swc
Direct lap time comparison to the real world has a lot of pit falls
Yes, this is the main reason we based the development more on data and comparison for acceleration and top speed. Then Michael Borda generated the tires on real data and we discovered lap time on Silverstone + hard were really closed. It was a confirmation of a good development.
...how satisfied he is with the current iteration of the mod and what sort of feedback has he got from the team drivers, who I assume have tested the mod as well and may be using it for practice?
And is he using the mod to test setup changes?
I'm sorry but I'm not authorized to answer to these questions. I already asked for permission Mr.D, but Team Principal denied the permission to speak about anything related to the team and drivers
@Filip
I would like to know if Mr. D's team uses rF1.
And will they use rF2 from now on with your mod?
And why dont they use rF2 already?
same as above, sorry. In addition in this case there are commercial implications...
@Emery
What are the realworld steering levels in Nm?
Forwarded... (pending)
At Silverstone, how much does his driver have left of the hard compound tires?
This sentence was part of more detailed questions I asked Mr.D during the development, for knowing wears and differences in performances between compounds in addition to have already received the technical data to be used for generating the tires: a "human" explanation can be very useful as well... And the answer by Mr.D was:
...is difficult to know... we never has different compound in same track in same year, anyway is more the difference in wear than in performance. If you follow the result, that you can see in all tracks along the champ, every year becomes better, they change the compound year after year; for that the result and with it they change the behaviors of the car to have a enough wear along races.
Direct lap time comparison to the real world has a lot of pit falls
Yes, this is the main reason we based the development more on data and comparison for acceleration and top speed. Then Michael Borda generated the tires on real data and we discovered lap time on Silverstone + hard were really closed. It was a confirmation of a good development.
...how satisfied he is with the current iteration of the mod and what sort of feedback has he got from the team drivers, who I assume have tested the mod as well and may be using it for practice?
And is he using the mod to test setup changes?
I'm sorry but I'm not authorized to answer to these questions. I already asked for permission Mr.D, but Team Principal denied the permission to speak about anything related to the team and drivers
@Filip
I would like to know if Mr. D's team uses rF1.
And will they use rF2 from now on with your mod?
And why dont they use rF2 already?
same as above, sorry. In addition in this case there are commercial implications...
@Emery
What are the realworld steering levels in Nm?
Forwarded... (pending)
At Silverstone, how much does his driver have left of the hard compound tires?
This sentence was part of more detailed questions I asked Mr.D during the development, for knowing wears and differences in performances between compounds in addition to have already received the technical data to be used for generating the tires: a "human" explanation can be very useful as well... And the answer by Mr.D was:
...is difficult to know... we never has different compound in same track in same year, anyway is more the difference in wear than in performance. If you follow the result, that you can see in all tracks along the champ, every year becomes better, they change the compound year after year; for that the result and with it they change the behaviors of the car to have a enough wear along races.
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Slow Motion
Registered
@Emery @Zizza
What are the realworld steering levels in Nm?
...how many NM has the real driver on the steering wheel?
In a real car we can calculate but for sure I will lie you without a real data (sensor data), in other cars that are allow to put a lot of sensor they can get a real value fitting a load cell on the steering but in our championship the cost is really adjusted and the organizers don´t let us to fit as much sensors as we would like, so we fit more important sensors than a load cell in a steering (more important because we can understand what happened in car) in example a suspension load cells or lasers to measure RH.
I would add that, to clarify how we developed that part, we entered specific data into the Physics Calculator like the Turns Lock, the Steer Ratio, the Rack Stroke... Then to set the Nominal Max Steer Torque, we added a standard value and then tuned it depending of the feedback of the driver that tested it long time ago.
What are the realworld steering levels in Nm?
...how many NM has the real driver on the steering wheel?
In a real car we can calculate but for sure I will lie you without a real data (sensor data), in other cars that are allow to put a lot of sensor they can get a real value fitting a load cell on the steering but in our championship the cost is really adjusted and the organizers don´t let us to fit as much sensors as we would like, so we fit more important sensors than a load cell in a steering (more important because we can understand what happened in car) in example a suspension load cells or lasers to measure RH.
I would add that, to clarify how we developed that part, we entered specific data into the Physics Calculator like the Turns Lock, the Steer Ratio, the Rack Stroke... Then to set the Nominal Max Steer Torque, we added a standard value and then tuned it depending of the feedback of the driver that tested it long time ago.
Slow Motion
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improvements to the 2016 and 2017 steering wheels for new paddles, 3d by Chris "redapg": below the 2017
You can also see that dash fonts are now less bright in the light as well as in the dark...
You can also see that dash fonts are now less bright in the light as well as in the dark...
Slow Motion
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Maybe last improvement for next build. Removed fake realistic tvcam from upgrades and added, as first onboard cam, the GP3 TVCockpit Cam
Slow Motion
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updated liveries for the 2017 ART Team + new helmets and visors for their drivers, by Chris “Brack Jabham”
Slow Motion
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Personally I'm not a lover of the hires at that level for so many reasons that I find useless to list, but easy to imagine. The template and all textures are painted at higher resolution and stored into my PC. In case, in the future we'll see. Thanks for your questions.
Brack Jabham
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My fault. I didn't see this until screenshots. I have fixed this and will submit a new versiuon before you get it. Also, I really should redo the paint scheme for ART entirely with everything I have learnt on this mod. May not make the next release, but encouragement keeps me working when time permits. Note to self: Work less hours, stop volunterring for everything going and focus!
PLAYLIFE
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Some questions for Mr D. if he has time for a few more answers:
1. How well does simulation correlate with real world testing (out of a score of 5)? What elements of the GP3 cars (tyres, chassis, aero, engine, etc) are the most difficult to simulate?
2. Do GP3 teams undertake tyre prediction modelling to attempt to learn the tyre characteristics (degradation, heat cycles, other parameters)?
3. What are the top 3 car setup parameters that have the most influence on lap-time (e.g., suspensions stiffness, wing angle, camber, etc.)?
4. How often do you run asymmetric setups (left to right) and are they substantial or only subtle?
5. And finally, who is the best GP3 driver you have seen in your time in the sport?!
1. How well does simulation correlate with real world testing (out of a score of 5)? What elements of the GP3 cars (tyres, chassis, aero, engine, etc) are the most difficult to simulate?
2. Do GP3 teams undertake tyre prediction modelling to attempt to learn the tyre characteristics (degradation, heat cycles, other parameters)?
3. What are the top 3 car setup parameters that have the most influence on lap-time (e.g., suspensions stiffness, wing angle, camber, etc.)?
4. How often do you run asymmetric setups (left to right) and are they substantial or only subtle?
5. And finally, who is the best GP3 driver you have seen in your time in the sport?!
Slow Motion
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I'm forwarding questions, very very interesting!
Please be patient because this is the most thrilling month for GP3: 3 events starting next weekend, so time for us will be really nothing! And... point 5... uhmmm I don't think we'll have an answer, LOL
Slow Motion
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Of course you are referring to the 2017. The template for wings states that the name must be "extra7" to avoid sharing with 2016 cars...