FFB Settings for T300

Discussion in 'Hardware Building/Buying/Usage Advice' started by DrivingFast, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    EDIT

    Adjustment for more feel (all level of forces), little more road (bumps) feeling, no clipping except eventually vibrators.

    First post.
     
  2. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    EDIT FIRST POST 04/11/2020

    Ok so I have slighly ajdusted FFB.

    Very happy of these settings.
    I really think have now the best compromise for realistic and pleasant FFB.


    Almost no clipping (Not meaningful or embarrassing = very good compromise)
    +
    More overall forces (very low to very high forces)
    +
    More road feeling (very low and low forces)
    +
    Introduce very very low vibrations when the car don't move (Not meaningful or embarrassing = very good compromise)
     
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  3. PatientRF2fan

    PatientRF2fan Registered

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    I have always used 75% in Thrustmaster Control Panel and 65-80% Multi in game.
    It makes sense (for clipping) to have the game setting below the control panel and I look forward to testing this:)

    Here is some other areas that are fun to test:

    CONSIDER HOW SETUP CAN INFLUENCE THE FEEDBACK
    obviously every car and track varies

    Raising the Caster increases the wheel force while cornering plus helps with overstear corrections (beware adds camber so may have to dial that back)
    Adding clutches tightens the rear and adds forces to the wheel
    Higher down force, tire pressures, dampers and springs and bars impact firmness plus fine road details (hot lappers all use softest tires LOL)
    EXAMPLE: Laguna seca has lots of cornering forces (so less caster) open flatter tracks can accept more caster.

    BRAKING MATTERS
    I keep raising the minimum force until I can feel the braking (so crucial) and each car requires different values.
    I know raising that may mask some very small feedback but the braking element is too important to me.
    I am sure the direct drive wheels convey the braking vibrations and tires about to lock very well.
    One day I will get me one of those......

    Hope this helps someone out there
     
  4. PatientRF2fan

    PatientRF2fan Registered

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    Tested DrivingFasts recommendation for the t300 and works very well Thanks bud!.

    here are the clipping results and the firmness of the wheel is better plus the fine details are more pronounced.
    Makes so much sense to not have the game setting higher than the control panel.
    Montecarlo 1966 f3 eve. Setting details on the right side.

    upload_2020-11-5_19-23-0.jpeg
    upload_2020-11-5_19-23-22.jpeg
    upload_2020-11-5_19-23-33.jpeg
    Clipped once * climbing the hill... I may have scrubbed the curb LOL
     
  5. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @PatientRF2fan it's not really about the relationship between the two, clipping (and the FFB output you're graphing) is determined by the in-game Mult.
     
  6. PatientRF2fan

    PatientRF2fan Registered

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    Thanks Lazza,

    Maybe I wasnt clear?

    I see what you mean, each graph had a lower multi and motec doesnt log the thrustmaster Gain.

    I was running 75 panel with 80-85 multi because the feel was great.
    I could have just lowered multi to avoid clipping but it felt weak.

    You guys suggested a great option for racers who prefer some firmness yet want to avoid clipping.
    So I tested 100 panel with less mult and it felt great with no clipping.
    Relevant to most of the posts in this thread.

    YOUR QUOTE
    "I think it's a much better option to run 100 in the profiler and take the Mult down to mostly eliminate clipping, and in fact it's important to do so with these wheels"
     
  7. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I was just saying it's not about the CP being higher than the Mult, which is what you said sounded like.

    I think for this level of wheel (my own T500 included, which is a little stronger than the T300) there's really no reason to run anything other than 100% in the CP, unless the person using it is very young or physically unable to handle the full wheel force. But this should only be done in games that can (mostly) avoid clipping, otherwise you risk the motor overheating. And I think that's the basis for the <100% default strength.
     
  8. Davince10

    Davince10 Registered

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    Hi,
    So i found out that the T300 controller.json had 2.6nm in the output max force, changed it to 3.9nm and noticed a real improvement.
    Im still curious to see if i lower the CP force (80 for example) i loose detail or not.

    With CP 100%, multi 50% and 3.9nm as max output force, in a small circuit with kerbs and tight corners the wheel overheats just a little.

    I also liked more with smoothing at 1, but i guess this could change with another track and car.

    What is your opinion?

    Thanks.
     
  9. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    The max torque setting will make absolutely no difference at those levels because it's a setting for much more powerful wheels and all cars produce at least around 7-8Nm. Any difference you felt there was imagined, but don't feel bad - it's perfectly normal.
     
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  10. AfarNUFC

    AfarNUFC Registered

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    I've been jumping around sims of late. GPL, AC, RRRE and of course RF2. I prefer to drive 60's f1 and in GPL and AC I've got the FFB pretty dialed in for these cars. But for RF2 I just can't "feel" the car, with the EVE stock content, Legends 67 mod and even Chief's 67 cars. The Eve ones especially feel horrid. I just have no feeling with the car and can't drive it, I know how to drive this era of cars in Sims, I've been doing it for over 20 years.

    So I stumbled on this thread and plugged in the values in the OP for my T300, It just feels way too weak, way too light in my hands, everything everyone else seems to have posted is saying that the OP needs to dial the settings down, I don't understand, that's going to make my FFB feel even worse.

    I tested the settings with the f1 70's mod and they work fine with that, so it's obviously an issue with the older cars, feels like you definitely need more weight in the wheel for GPL like mods, but I'm not sure what's the best way to get that, a lot of contradictory comments in this thread.
     
  11. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    These settings are the best compromise between T300 huge limitations, good drivers settings and acceptable software clipping :

    1. Thrusmaster Control Panel


    1.1. Overall forces = 100%
    1.2. Contant and Periodic = 100%
    1.3. Spring and Damper = 0%


    2. Ingame settings

    2.1. FFB smoothing = 0 (OFF)
    2.2. Vehicle set = yes
    2.3. Car Specific FFB Mult = 0.9 or 90% (NOT MORE IMPORTANT)
    For some rather rare cars it will be necessary to lower the value.
    0.9 is suitable for 95% of cars.
    For FWD ETCC cars for example, 0.6 is the good setting.
    By opening the "All vehicles" file (player folder), using the "replace by" function, you can do it for all cars at one time.

    2.4. FFB Min Torque : 2.5%
    In the controller.json or ingame.

    Note: I changed my nickname, I'm the OP. I am very satisfied with these new settings.

    Hope it help.


    Also, check the line OFFROAD MULTIPLIER on the Controler.Json : and set 1 (100%).
     
  12. PatientRF2fan

    PatientRF2fan Registered

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    The default castor on the eve f2 f3 is like 5. max is 7. If you go up to 6 - 6.3 the wheel becomes firmer without adding multi. It adds camber a little so it may affect that setting if you do it.
    I have a t300 and also find I need a little more Min force like 9-11 to get rid of the dead spot in the middle.
     
  13. AfarNUFC

    AfarNUFC Registered

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    Chief's 67's drive fine around "not" Monza 66 with this, will check the Eve's but I can't see them making a huge difference with that car, perhaps it's just the car and not the ffb.
     
  14. AfarNUFC

    AfarNUFC Registered

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    good to know will look at that and adjust, thanks.
     
  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    It's quite possible those old cars had a different peak FFB target compared to the newer stuff.

    This thread partially aims for reducing clipping in the FFB. You could use Simhub to check for clipping, or use telemetry like DAMPlugin with motec i2pro to see how much clipping that car produces. It may require a higher vehicle specific mult.

    The amount of clipping on a 1.0 mult is really arbitrary and up to the car maker.
     
  16. PatientRF2fan

    PatientRF2fan Registered

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    Good point Lazza and I find the flex chassis have smaller dead zone in the steering geometry than the old stiff chassis.
     
  17. AfarNUFC

    AfarNUFC Registered

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    To be brutally honest, I don't give much of a damn about what a tool tells me is clipping. What I judge this on is how it feels to me, in relation what I would expect and how other similar cars in other sims feel. In GPL (with it's FFB mod of course) and AC with the GPL mod, there's a much greater sense of connection to the car, than when I drive the Eve's. Chiefs 67 cars are just about right to me with the new settings. But Eve is off by a long chalk, clipping tools I'm sure serve their purpose but if you rely on data telling how you should feel the car rather than feeling the car for yourself, you are doing something wrong IMO.
     
  18. AfarNUFC

    AfarNUFC Registered

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    I followed your advice and thanks this does make the Eve feel car a lot heavier and I get a better sense of feel for it. It is however just a more unstable car than what I'm predominantly comparing it to 1968 mod in GPL. You feel the downforce the wings added from 67 to 68, but it still 4 wheel drifts, difference to the Eve is that that drift is controllable, predictable in many ways if you are used to the characteristics of 60's f1. The Eve feels unstable for unstable sake in some attempt to mimic that tricky nature of that era of car, feels a bit haphazard to me.

    Anyway to the point of this thread think I'm happy with the FFB now, thanks everyone. I obviously just have an issue with the EVe's
     
  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Testing clipping is about maximising FFB strength while minimising loss of detail at the top end. Nothing to do with car feel.

    Here it sounded like strength was an issue:
     
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  20. Case

    Case Registered

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    If you don't care about clipping and just go by how the FFB feels to you, that basically means you don't care at all if you get all the available detail in the FFB and if your FFB is set up as it should. Setting up FFB correctly is completely impossible without a tool to measure clipping (which is why it is such a shame that rF2 doesn't even include one and you have to use external tools - every sim should have an FFB meter or at least a clipping indicator). And it doubly applies to rF2 where different cars can be very much off - some are more or less correct with FFB multiplier at 100%, some are clipping horribly (I remember a Group C mod that is probably the worst offender I've ever encountered in this regard, because I assume it tries to "simulate" heavy steering of those cars on our weak wheels by just amplifying/clipping the whole FFB signal like crazy) and some are way too weak. If you set your FFB according to how it feels, you have no point of reference other than your "feel", which might be completely off for what is correct for maximum detail in the FFB. The strength of the FFB is dictated by how powerful your wheel is (which for the T300 means...not that much). If you send higher signal than what the wheel is capable off, it will certainly make the wheel feel heavier, but you'll be losing detail, and over long term also damaging your wheel, because it will be heating up a lot more.

    So I really suggest everyone take their time and set up the FFB correctly to get just the right (slight) amount of clipping in some extreme situations. If the wheel feels too light for you, then that doesn't mean the FFB is set up incorrectly, it means you need a wheel capable of producing more torque. Still, I'd say the T300 produces plenty of torque for normal driving, even when set up correctly. It might not produce the torque you'd feel in the real car, but still plenty to give you enough information.

    BTW, one thing I can highly recommend to anyone who has trouble "feeling the car" with the T300 (and such wheels) and wants to somewhat emphasize the weaker forces is to experiment with the "Steering torque sensitivity" in the controller.json file. It is rarely mentioned, but it made a lot of difference for me bumping it up from the default 1.0 setting. It alters the "response curve" of the forces kinda like this:

    [​IMG]
    Bear in mind that if you go above 1, then you generally have to lower the FFB multiplier even for cars that are set correctly with default settings and the multiplier at 100% (and if you go below 1, then you obviously might have to raise it), because it doesn't just affect the weak forces, it boosts even the stronger ones somewhat, just less than the weak ones. I'm using values close to 2, which means that even with a car that was set up more or less correctly at 1 and 100%, I have to go to around 65-70% multiplier to compensate for the torque sensitivity adjustment, otherwise I'd be clipping all the time and the FFB would be unbearable. But I was certainly never happier with the rF2 FFB once I discovered this setting.
     
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