FFB: RF2 VS Assetto Corsa

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Steven Luppino, May 13, 2017.

  1. liakjim

    liakjim Registered

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    It's more than once stated that AC's FFB with all effects to zero, are 100% generated by physics calculations .
    The forces come from 2 sources.
    1. Tyre load = resistance. This comes from weight, aero and mechanical trail. The latter comes from caster.
    2. Suspension movement.

    Reading the above someone can explain why some cars feel less alive in AC. Cars with stiff suspension with low travel , while being light , without aero and maybe with low caster will give low forces.
    This is normal.
    Add with the fact that many (like me) play with a weak wheel like the G27 , with huge dead zone, will give them a not so good experience. Kunos decided not to give caster control because they want fidelity to real cars.
    But try a car which is soft and with big caster value like Cobra and you will get superb FFB. Add lut control and personally I will prefer the result which is natural, rattle free, full of dynamics over every other sim . AC still gives me better understanding of what rear axle does .
    Another favourite is the haurya BC.

    AC just works that way.
    When someone understand this and have a weak wheel , he can add some effects to help his weak wheel give more info. Not all effects are fake. Slip is fake and so is kerbs. Road effect and enhanced understeer are just multipliers from physics calculations.
    For my G27 I use 5% slip, 5% kerbs , 10% road, 5% ABS, enhanced understeer off, some minimum damping like 0.015 from ini to help G27 fight the rattle and of course lut to iron the outcome forces.
    The result is really good FFB , which has nothing to jealous from rf2. The latter still gives me rattle which i need 9 filtering to suppress and as stated still less info for rear axle and also less needing for microadjustment while turning , were in AC I always catch myself to need way more wheel micromanagement to point the car.


    PS: Fun fact: tried a friend's DD wheel. Differences among sims tested , AC, rf2, AMS , were actually almost disappeared.
    DD wheels have so much headroom that all sims feel almost the same and superb.
    Thanks for reading.
     
  2. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    interesting fun fact there cheers. :)
     
  3. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Lagg banned?
    Impossible.

    He probably is not even suscribed to that forum. He does not use AC unless he is doing it in secret.
     
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  4. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    Sorry about linking that thread from AC, guys. I didn't realize some of the stuff said about rF2 earlier.
     
  5. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    No. I've never entered there.
    I bought Assetto some months ago, but i don't like it and i don't use it.
     
  6. kimbo

    kimbo Registered

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    I do not believe in ghosts, gods or religions, but the only really supernatural thing imo, is the amount of people who like AC,
    For the only reason that i have not yet uninstalled, it is because i have space on the hard drive.
     
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  7. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    I really enjoy the VR in AC and now I really enjoy it rF2.
    Great job Studio-397!!
    So, for me physics took second place to VR three years ago, which was an undertaking at the time. This, coupled with my limited computer skills, cause AC's physics to be glitchy. There is still a lose of two way communication at times with some cars.
    No other sim puts a grin on my face like rF2 with the T70 Lota on the back straight of historic Spa. That is the closest I have ever got to reality in a sim to date.
     
  8. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    Hmm. My experience has been a bit different. As i have moved to better wheels from g27 to tx and from that to osw, i have end up feeling that rf2 has more depth to it's physics and ffb. For ac i have tried lut, and spent good amount of time trying to figure out best settings but there is always that hint of artificiallness in the ffb.
     
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  9. caravan_driver

    caravan_driver Registered

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    Is there a way of using RF1 tyre model with the new FFB in RF2 dev mode?
    That "use old tyre model" option is for this purpose or is it an older RF2 tyre model?
     
  10. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    It was stated at a time that this would be possible and that it had been requested by several modding teams that find difficult to properly use tgm tool. However, I don't think relevant information has been published of how to do it.

    I don't know if someone has tested using old type tbc file where compounds are not linked to tgm files.
     
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  11. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    I don't know if someone already ask if there's something similar to LUT that can be applied in rF2 to correct force curve (and have more linear response in Logitech wheels). From what I've read the only workaround to mitigate the problem, is to run wheelcheck app to determine min force and set in the game.
    Or maybe rF2 automatically have some basic force curve corrections(like gain in AC ) , when choosing wheel profile?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  12. caravan_driver

    caravan_driver Registered

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    It doesn't work without data that people don't have.
    Source.
     
  13. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    @caravan_driver
    Despite I respect Stefano for his work, it doesn't convince me wheelcheck app is voodoo .
    If it was so bad at gathering data, how come it accurately measures minimum force on different wheels? I mean if my wheel doesn't move after sending 14-15% of max force, but it starts rotating at 16%-17%.
    Anyway, I'm sure wheelcheck isn't the best, most scientifically proven method for gathering LUT input, but using torque sensor would probably cost more than my wheel:)
     
  14. Led566

    Led566 Registered

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    About LUT postprocessing, AFAIK no.
    There is a Minimum torque setting in the controller.json file that helps prevent the "FFB deadzone".
     
  15. Led566

    Led566 Registered

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    Even with its limitations, WheelCheck plus LUT generator is the only way to get rid of the ridiculous spring feeling in AC if you have an OSW wheel.
    Maybe Kunos should build a wheel profile for OSW?
    The problem is that every OSW user own a "custom" solution regarding motor and wheel so the total inertia is not known a priori.
    rF2 is easier to setup if you use the correct "Steering torque sensitivity" parameter in the controller.json
     
  16. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    You mean centering spring feeling? I I used to think DD wheels were the holy grail in therms of accuracy. I mean no dead zones, FFB clipping , no LUT files etc. But the more I read about it, the more issues I see I.e some effects too strong (need to be careful not to injure wrists), and some too weak (understeer). Now I’m not so keen on buying AccuForce v2 or Fanatec DD wheel (when it’s released) and maybe go with with good, strong belt driven wheel. Especially that I live in Europe and don’t there’s customer support for these in EU.
     
  17. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    Very interesting!! I have the V2 Fanatec and can hurt my wrist with it. So I am not necessarily looking for more power but more accuracy and detail. More importantly, accurate detail at precise timing.
    There are so many ways to calculate the information for a sim. Every sim coder say they use real data but they all feel sooo different.
    Something seems to be odd with AC judging from Kunos' unorthodox forum behavior. I get the feeling there are subjects they don't want discussed openly.
     
  18. liakjim

    liakjim Registered

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    lol
     
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  19. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    Do any of you guys remember when AC updated from 32 bit to 64? I really noticed the increased physics detail in the corners. The next time I noticed that kind of detail improvement was when I installed rF2.

    Is rF2 running at 64 bit? I'm only asking because rF2 is an older sim.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  20. Pocisk

    Pocisk Registered

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    With this example pic.:
    [​IMG]

    - If you want more detail, set low FFB smoothing value (for Logitech G25/27/29 i recommend more than 4, for Thrustmaster Fanatec and DD you can go lower than 4).
    - If you want reduce the FFB dead zone (or whatever you call it), increase FFB minimum torque.
    How to set correct FFB minimum torque? Make a simple test and slowly set it up until the wheel will start to oscillating in the garage
    For Logitech G25/27/29 i recommend sth. about 16 - 18%, for Thrustmaster Fanatec and DD you can set lower values.
    (sorry for my eng.)
     

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