Apex Modding GT3 - 2012 (v1.09 )

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by yoss, Jan 25, 2014.

  1. simonslj1

    simonslj1 Registered

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    Hi Guys

    Don't forget the GT3 R has a variable ratio rack. According to some data I've seen the ratio is approx 51mm to 60mm of rack travel per revolution. Assistance is electric. The steering appears to have been the same from MY2010 to at least 2013 -when was the 991 GT3R introduced? It looks like paddle change gears were introduced for 2012, replacing the stick type sequential change but the steering ratio seems to be the same.

    Hope this helps

    Si
     
  2. lordpantsington

    lordpantsington Registered

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    Actually 50.87-59.67mm ;P Trust me, they've seen it. If they haven't done something tricky with the physics, (not sure if rf2 can do variable ratio racks), you can set up your wheel control to be non-linear, you'd get the same response as what is in the car. If you've got data for 2013+ 997.2 or any 991 GT3R pm me.
     
  3. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    No it was this car. I had excessive front wear but its pretty good now.

    In the flat 6 rear wear is greater but it is IRL too and its manageable. With 60% of the weight and the driven wheels they do a lot of work on track.
     
  4. simonslj1

    simonslj1 Registered

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    Yes indeed but perhaps 0.87/0.37 of a mm is of little consquense if the rest of the data is out! "GT3-025"? If they are using the same set of data that I've seen then very little else in the HDV etc is RL? BTW I've just noticed that there are two TurnsLockToLock entries in the HDV 1.472222 and 1.2. BTW its a great mod!

    Cheers

    Si
     
  5. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    My memory war right about the car a GT3R, but 270º was from center to lock, but as it has been stated elsewhere steering ratio is variable in real time. Can be different in stands than on track

    Cheers.
     
  6. lordpantsington

    lordpantsington Registered

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    Cool, thanks! I asked because 270° was oddly coincidentally half of 540° (1.5 Turns), I thought that might be a center to lock measure. I've seen mention of RSR and 09 Cup racks with less turns. Best guess is that the 1.472 number comes from either an actual dash calibration, or was the adjustment required to get correct range with nonlinear control setup.

    ;)
     
  7. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Yesterday a 40 laps race was run again at Sao Paolo, Bumble on a Mc Laren won (best lap in race 1-30-788), leading by less than a 7 seconds margin after more than an hour race the Camaro of Wishmaster, and in the same lap Alpha-Bravo on a Mc Laren.

    The last lap of Bumble was still under 1-31-5...

    Tyre management and skillful drving allowed these three gentlemen to complete the 40 laps on the same set of tires.

    On fourth place we found Yoss itself as the first of those who changed tyres (on lap 22), followed by the SLS of Merlin Cooper, the Porsche of Lucky06 and Brunochapeiry.

    Congratulation to those racers.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2016
  8. yoss

    yoss Registered

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    i can't manage the tyres more than 22 laps , some one forget he have a brake pedal and i have a big crash at the beginning and car understeer after this one.
     
  9. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

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  10. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    Neo BR AV 12 hours of Bathurst.
    Apex Modding GT3 plus ISI Megane.
    12 hours, 14 cars, One mountain.

    LGEL asked me to flesh out the tale of this race once it was done, so here it is.

    Prelude
    This was the first endurance race advertised after the arrival of the Mt Panorama track in the ISI RF2 sim.
    I love this track and was itching to do a multi player endurance race there.

    The Apex GT3 in V930 is now IMO a high quality mod and so it was enough reason for me to sign up.
    When driving GT3 cars my usual mount is the Porsche 911.
    Initial tests in the v928 found the 911 was off the pace. So I evaluated and chose initially the BMW Z4. Later switching to the Ferrari.

    v930 saw a 911 that was not only faster but MUCH more immersive to drive.
    I made the switch back to the 911. I tested a couple of other cars and found the McLaren to be very neutral and reliable in its handling and within a few short laps I was at the same pace as the 911. With some work it may have been faster. The 458 was a little more alive than the “Macca” but again quite quick. I never tested the Corvette, turns out its top speed was lethal.

    Testing
    I stuck with the Porsche, even if it had the potential to be a little slower it was the car I preferred. The challenge of keeping that characterful flat 6 behind me where it belonged for lap after lap as I descended the Esses at Mt Panorama was a one that I relished. There might be a faster car but if it was “vanilla flavoured” it wasn't for me. To drive a 12 hour race I need to like the car. I thought back to the real world 12 hours of Bathurst in 2015. Patrick Long in the 911 was 2-3 laps down but fought bravely. In my head that was the task.

    I skinned it in my tradition Southern Cross Racing colours. Burnt Orange in respect for Bruce McLaren, some chequered pattern for HRT F1 my old multi player team from Codies F1 2011 and some carbon as it looks cool. The number is always #12 when possible. It was the number of Senna s Lotus 98T when I first saw him on TV at Adelaide starting my F1 infatuation.

    The weeks of practice and set up work passed by. Most weeks I would do a couple of sessions of a full tank of fuel (30 laps) and a bit of tinkering. My initial team mates from my FSR outfit Avid Chronic Racing faded away and I was alone as the event loomed. Early testing showed a front rear temp and wear imbalance. The fronts were wearing too fast. For days I made adjustments to get more heat into the rears. Strangely after a 2 week break I started testing again and it wasn’t an issue, can't explain that one.
    We were getting a 30 lap stint (65 mins) and the worst tyre (FR) was @ 65%. The car had solid balance through the stint and tyre deg about equalled fuel effect so it was as quick at lap 22 as it was at lap 2.

    A team is formed.
    Jorge Lorenzo of OnWheelsTv introduced me to Michael Teichmann. A German National living in Mexico. He was alone in a Nissan 370Z. We teamed up for some sessions on the server. He had solid pace and seemed a good guy. We agreed to collaborate in the 911 for the event.

    Compromise on set up is always an issue in these endurance events. Some drivers have very different requirements. It seems I like a little over-steer If your team mate likes a little under steer you can be in a pickle. Michael and I were happy with the same set, slight changes in brake bias was all that was required. Again I run it further to the rear (more over-steer and less front wear). Its a common difference I seem to have and I suspect it is to do with my wheel and FFB settings. I run some centering spring and it possibly helps me manage over-steer. I steer a lot with throttle and brake using fore-aft movement and not a lot of wheel movement.
    Bathurst is one of those tracks like the Nordschliefe where the terrain is often keen to turn the car so a little less over-steer is good. In the 911 keeping the flat 6 engine and rear mounted gearbox planted on the ground as you brake, turn and descend the "esses" is a priority.

    The car was starting to feel good all the way across a stint with a lap time delta of less than 1 sec from lap 1 to lap 30.

    Weather
    In the run up to the event wet weather emerged as a big threat.
    There was a slight language barrier and the hard working and professional organisers from NEO BR hadn’t made it fully clear in an English language perspective that we would be running real world weather from that very day in Bathurst but rendering it in-game by setting the weather to the same as the days forecast. 2 days out the forecast was for a lot of rain.
    Teams worked on wet set ups, did a bit of soul searching and a little anxiety was evident in the threads.

    Michael and I found that we could run our dry set and add 1 (for me) and 2 (for him) more clicks of rear wing, that over-steer/under steer thing again and I liked a slight tyre pressure increase. On the server we were running within 1 sec of the fastest GT3s and things seemed OK.
    We don't see ourselves as Aliens, more solid podium threats with maybe some luck.

    Michael qualified the car as the night before he was going quicker than me in quali trim.
    We qualified P5 of 7 GT3 cars. The fastest guys were – 3 sec.

    We were getting on well as team mates. I tend to get a bit intense and possessive on set up. Michael was calm, unflappable, positive and polite. Our pace was similar.
    We both knew that we did not have the ultimate pace of the top teams but that we only needed 2 or 3 teams to make mistakes or have bad luck for us to take a podium. That became our goal.

    Due to time differences we decide to “follow the sun” with our driver rota. He is 5 hours behind GMT so I would start and he would finish. No sense me driving at 2am. We planned two stints of 30 laps (a full tank of 100 litres) and appr 65 mins between driver changes.

    Very late change of plans
    30 mins from the race Jorge approached me in Team speak with a deal. He felt it would be a mistake to run as a 2 man team and he had a fast guy who was a league winner in Brazil in the Flat 6 car and was available. He also knew Michael. It was a bit nerve wracking negotiating and reviewing the plans 25 mins before the race. I agreed that he should talk to Michael and I would be OK with what Michael decided.
    Driver #3 also needed to download the mod and drive some laps. It was now race start -20. He would need to be pretty talented to get used to it in time. It was decided he should do a full tank of fuel in single player to prepare. Driver # 3 was in.

    Race Start
    It was an eventful race. I started the race and it took me about 40 mins to settle into it and find a rhythm. It was dry, but I spun at Caltex chase in the first few laps which put me behind the lead two Meganes.
    Over the next 8-10 laps I caught and passed them Meganes and took my place in some clear air at the back of the GT3 pack. The lead Meganes were able to harry us over the opening 2-3 laps but we settled into a pace about 2 sec a lap faster. They were super quick over the mtn but -35kph on the straight (240 kph vs our 275). It meant that so long as you had a clean lap you could navigate them quite easily. The bonus was you never really got stuck behind them as they were fast where you couldn’t pass and easy to pass where you could. Still it was nice to see them dropping back steadily. By my stop it was a 60 sec gap.

    During that time some others had issues and we were promoted to 3rd place. It was more on fortune than pace. I was dropping about 1 lap per hour to the leaders. One of the fastest cars appeared behind me after they had some issues. He was faster than us and was 3 laps down already. I decided that it was smarter to lift and allow a safe easy pass. Fighting him would not be very sporting and defending such a driver would only slow my lap time. I wanted to drive my race in an endurance mentality, not get too busy too early with battles.

    My second stint was better and I started to find some pace. It ended with us still in P3 but the fast guys were gaining on us steadily. It would depend who had the luck. I can't drive in hard sectors and have a conversation. I got distracted by having to discuss stuff in the esses and spun, so took to muting my comms over the mountain and un-muting them on Conrod straight. I would be in “stealth mode” for the 40 seconds or so over the mountain.

    It was 2 hours and 10 minutes into the race when I pitted for the first driver change.


    Our last minute 3rd driver was fast. He jumped in the car and put some laps in that were 1.5 sec faster than mine but we had a couple of language barriers and his lack of practice in this car hurt his stint a bit. He had a fairly big contact with the wall and fatigue also kicked in and he needed to end his stint 35 mins early and give me the car. We had not rehearsed our driver changes together and a botched pit stop meant he stopped without selecting me to take the car and we had to do another lap and pit again. That lap included 2 spins. It was not the fault of the #3 driver. It was just a questionable plan to insert him into a team 20 mins before a 12 hour race. The 911 over the mountain was a bit of a handful and 200 laps practice makes it a safer proposition than does15 laps. It was us that agreed to it ,so that’s where any blame lies. It was frustrating for him as the fastest GT3s were blowing our doors off on Conrod straight with top speeds of over 285kph. He wanted to compete and I fear the little Weisach weapon was just a little down on performance. As it happens we were the lead 911 by quite some margin.


    At race time of 3 hrs 35 mins when I took it over for my second 2 hour stint it was strangely 2 sec a lap slower. It felt ok but it was slower. It seems a hit in the previous stint had caused some irreparable damage. Push as hard as I might the laps were firmly stuck in the high 2:10 sec area. The leaders were making best use of the improving real road and clocking 2:04 sec. This meant that the fast guys who had early issues were able to pull back the gap faster and the little Meganes that were 2 sec slower over a lap were now on par with us. So lap after lap I would have a Megane buzzing on my rear bumper over the mountain and then drop him for Conrod and Mountain straights only to have him buzzing my bumper again. The GT3 took a lot of commitment to keep it balanced over the mountain, the Megane would make it plain I was holding him up. One time I let him have his moment and allowed a pass at Forest elbow only to fly by him again on Conrod straight with 35kph more top end and a blue flag. All a bit pointless when he is 6 laps behind me.

    I pitted again just to make sure I had no unrepaired damage. No change, we were circulating but we were slow.

    All this time Michael had been seconded into co-commentary by our hosts. He dropped back to talk to me in team speak and said he was tired! I wondered if I should have looked over the fine print in the new plan more carefully!

    It was race time of 5 hrs 45 mins and with still 6 hours to go and at the end of my stint and after 120 laps driven by me, My co driver Michael Teichmann was preparing to take over.

    Emergency
    At about lap 178 and with 1 lap to go I had a brake (hardware) pedal failure into the Chase. No brakes at all. I hit the kitty litter and the fence. Took a moment to register what had happened. I simply said “something is wrong with the car”. I re-started it and slotted straight into the pit lane only 200 metres further. That part was handy! but rolled straight down pit lane with no brakes at all and out the other end!

    I was stopped in the pit exit lane. We figured if I exited the game and checked controls I could re bind my clutch pedal as the brake and at least pit for the driver change. Driving a lap with no brakes at all and cruising down the pit lane again wasn't an option.
    I pressed ESC to deal with it and with that the race was over, rejoin was not enabled. Game over. Michael didn’t get to do a single lap.
    He was a true gentleman about it and understood the issue.
    Just one more lap and I was home with my 4 hrs 20 mins done!
    If I had a hand brake bound to a key it could have worked!... Note to self-bind a control for hand brake!

    Epilogue
    Investigations by stripping down my modded fanatec CSR pedals the next day revealed
    that one of 3 tiny wires that connect to the potentiometer had let go its' solder point.
    I bought a soldering iron and had a go. Hadn't soldered anything since 1972 when I was racing slot cars, a McLaren M8 A. (same time as Ross Brawn was it so happens). I managed to fix it.
    The physical repair of a brake somehow increased my immersion after the event! Strange really.

    Next..
    The next one is on the 20th February hosted by P1 Racing.de same guys who ran the sucessful Nordschliefe 24 hours. (Top crew)
    It will feature the Apex cars again plus the Flat 6 in its own cup class. (it is 2-3 sec lap slower at Bathurst) and some BTCC cars.
    We are already talking about that one. I've got an OSSW wheel to build b4 that one.
     
  11. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    Wow, what drama, thanks for sharing that, very good read.
     
  12. Wishmaster

    Wishmaster Registered

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    This is something you can learn. Its not to hard to achieve.
     
  13. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Pretty sure he's talking about an incident that he had to manage, not normal driving.
     
  14. yoss

    yoss Registered

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    in the start we have one contact on the first right turn , after this one the car understeer more than usual.
    Two days ago i made one full race against ia and i made 40 laps without problems.

    TY David for the report and what a drama end of race ..
     
  15. Isosceles Kramer

    Isosceles Kramer Registered

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    Can you make diff adjustable for the next version of the mod?
     
  16. alpha-bravo

    alpha-bravo Registered

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    @davidporeilly Incredible exciting race report ! Thanks for sharing [emoji106]
     
  17. yoss

    yoss Registered

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    we can may be add a upgrade for ajustable diff like we made for the gearbox ratios.
    the betatesters and the winner of the différents race we made on our server friendly give us the motec log and we actually work on cpm tyres (compounds ,wear and heating ) and suspensions (steering arms ).no new 3d model for the moment .

    but as usual we take our time for provide some things better that actually .

    after the Bathurst 12 h with the mod,next big race with the mod and same track is this one : http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/27570-P1-Gaming-e-V-12h-Bathurst-20-02-2016

    a gt3 champ begin today here : http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...AGUE-Saturdays-at-8pm-GMT-Begins-January-30th
     
  18. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    I look forward to the progress, v.938 or .94 will be very welcome whenever is ready. A couple of interesting things from the race:

    - This damage wasn't visually repaired, although mechanically it was:
    View attachment 19236 View attachment 19237

    - This McLaren driver was able to lap very similar laptimes despite missing a lil' som' som' , which was also mechanically repaired but visually it remained the same
    View attachment 19238

    - 2 engines blew up from over revving, 1 really extreme redlining (McL), the other a careless moment of 2nd gear being engaged too soon (Vette). It was pleasant to see
    - As previously mentioned, Camaro has incredible tires
    - 3 different car makes with moments of very, very bad snap oversteer akin to iRacing's rear snapping

    (images originally 1440p, maxed graphics with high shadows)
     
  19. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Thanks for your feedback, can you explain what do you mean by stating that Camaro has incredible tyres?
    Which three makes of cars had moments of very, very bad snap oversteer?
    Have you checked the telemetry of the cars with moments of very, very bad snap oversteer?
    How were their tyres at the moment?

    Cheers.
     
  20. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Yesterday a 40 laps race was held at Sebring, Bumble was able to win driving a Porsche 799 leveraging a relative lack of absolute pace by a masterful drive, second was Alpha-Bravo who had a very close fight with Yoss (fastest lap in race, who made an error with his fuel estimates and had to pit twice...), both driving a Mc Laren, fourth was Lucky06 driving also a Porsche.

    Bumble telemetry shows a very balanced tyre wear between front and rear end, with a relative imbalance of wear of rear left and right tyres. The maximum wear was 45 % after a 1h hour 22 minutes race. His last lap was 2-02-194, 1,613 seconds down on his best lap in race, he managed the whole race on a single set of tyres.

    Wishmaster, usual contender for podium or victory, blew the motor of his SLS (driver error, over revving).

    Once again, congratulations to those fine racers who had a great time together.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2016

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