A few changes, including refund policy

Tim Wheatley said:
That's because telling you that it would happen some point in the future, means it isn't happening now. The communication being asked for, means telling you now what's being worked on now, now. The expectation, if you really need an example, would be if he said he had started work on it now, then next week, he switched to something else, possibly because a piece of content needed something changing in the core. Standard question then would be about what happened to the thing he was working on last week, and I believe the community at large could not cope with that information (or rather, how the information changes, and how development won't match their expectations, or ours, or the estimations, etc).

If you want this information, apply to be a tester, they see what's going into the upcoming updates, but they also understand something could get pulled from it, and not come back for a long time. The community would not, I believe.
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Well application sent...put in a good word for me :) Will be very surprised if I get in but hey, the prospect has put a smile on my face at least.
 
I'd like to be considered as a tester... My system is pretty high end, and I would like to be able to help in any way I can... Is there a form somewhere?
 
question to the modders:
because ISI just reached the "gold" stage of development - at least this is how I undestand the end of testing period - can we expect final versions of mods, tracks ?
 
dulk said:
question to the modders:
because ISI just reached the "gold" stage of development - at least this is how I undestand the end of testing period - can we expect final versions of mods, tracks ?
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It's easy; as ISI is still developing the product, releasing new builds and improvements, modders will do the same, following the main dev process.

From a philosophic point of view, nothing is final. You've just early and latest version of a product, which is theoretically, still perfectible. :)
 
dulk said:
question to the modders:
because ISI just reached the "gold" stage of development - at least this is how I undestand the end of testing period - can we expect final versions of mods, tracks ?
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Who said ISI/rf2 has reached "Gold"?

Nobody as far as I know... certainly not ISI as far as I`m aware.

The beta tag has gone but rf2 is still in testing. :)
 
Tuttle said:
It's easy; as ISI is still developing the product, releasing new builds and improvements, modders will do the same, following the main dev process.

From a philosophic point of view, nothing is final. You've just early and latest version of a product, which is theoretically, still perfectible. :)
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So can we have top gear now:D
 
tjc said:
Who said ISI/rf2 has reached "Gold"?

Nobody as far as I know... certainly not ISI as far as I`m aware.

The beta tag has gone but rf2 is still in testing. :)
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Maybe formally it is not "gold" because as Tim said it is/will be under development all the time.
But if you buy now RF2 and your pay for online gaming is immediatelly activated ("consumed") then I assume product can be perceived as being ready/gold/released.
The question is if developers=modders agree with that and will release final versions of tracks/mods soon?
 
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Payment is one thing, but actual state of product is another.

For those of us, who purchased early, we were granted up to 2,5 years of online membership instead of one. This privilege does no longer apply to new users.

I think, for a new user, this is not a good time to buy rFactor2. If you wanted it early you bought it early and got 2,5 years of online. But rF2 is not mature enough for people to start some serious online racing, so our online experience is limited. So it's a tradeoff - more time for the same price, but with less people online.

But if someone purchases now, then he is in the same situation as to online gameplay, but without the benefit of extra year. So no tradeoff.

Of course if you're in for lifetime option this doesn't concern you.



From technical point of view, we will be able to call rF2 "gold", when all released content is updated to latest build, unfinished features are finished and existing features are no longer "unstable" (evolving in a way that makes old content invalid).
From this point, development should focus on adding new features and extending existing ones.

This is pretty much what modders are waiting for - this "safe zone". How long will it take before we get there? No idea.
 
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so when full f1 season on rf2 will be possible? never?
for me 20 trucks with quality i.e. like Croft would be enough, even with current physics etc.
till now moders waited for gold - but for me ISI move means: "it is time to release mods/trucks - there will be no something like real gold/fully stable/finished version soon (maybe even in 2-5years it will be still evolving)".
so I am interested if modders will try to use what they have at the moment.
 
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dulk said:
till now moders waited for gold - but for me ISI move means: "it is time to release mods/trucks - there will be no something like real gold/fully stable/finished version soon (maybe even in 2years it will be still evolving)".
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It's actually not about some "gold" version, but about meeting the requirements I've mentioned in my previous post.

So rF2 version doesn't need to be "final", "gold" nor "full" - it just have to be mature enough for modders. What that means only these modders know, because they want to use certain features so they wait for them to be sufficient.


And no, I don't believe ISI is sending any message to modders. On the contrary - ISI still haven't updated their own content to new build, so even ISI thinks it's too early to release mature content.

When ISI updates all their released content - that will be the signal.
 
K Szczech said:
When ISI updates all their released content - that will be the signal.
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I fully agree with your point of view. This last sentence is a very good summary. I also completely agree with your point of view of the disadvantegeous conditions for new buyers that have the "year countdown" started with no sufficient content and many bugs to be solved.
 
Hi
I am surprised to hear that rFactor 2 is not graphically superb.
I would try to say "A newer hardware to impress you."
I was crossfire HD5770 1GB deSapphire and I found it already but well there with my recent purchase, a Sapphire HD7950 3GB Boot I am surprised with what I see before me.
Personally, I do not expect anything more graphically, against the rain on the windshield, the back of the car so I hope (in the coming months) with at least that.
Physics is great and can be improved.
This simulation call or Beta or whatever, who cares can already do a lot with.
Now on modding, I can not say anything about it because I do not know the depths and design (for now).

I let the time ISI and for the simple reason that hen I buy rFactor1 having seen the demo on DVD that was delivered with my G27 and then I discovered the version 1.255Fr and if c is their goal rFactor2, I am very confident for the future.

Sorry my english, translation by Google
 
What in the hell is wrong with all you people? Why is this thread still going on???

For anyone that likes to pay $45 plus $13 a year every year , rather than a one time $85 and that's it (don't know why anyone would do that but that's besides the point), you:

A. get 2.5 years before you have to pay a single penny

B. your 1 free year starts June 2013, (should be at decent progress by then, probably another 4-7 updates from now). That means that your 1 free year didn't even start until a whole 18 months later!

C. you get an entire freaking month to play the game an unlimited amount (online and offline) to decide if you want a refund or not.

and D. you can request a full 100% refund for any reason, no questions asked!!!


So what the heck is wrong with all that??

Some of you gotta step outside, it's like you live on the computer. It's freaking $85, just buy the game, and be done with it, jesus christ. Or if you can't afford a whole one time that lasts you forever $85 purchase, then you don't even have to pay a single penny of your measly $13 online access fee for around another 1.5 years from now! That's summer 2014! Looong time from now boys.

Close this stupid thread already, if I wasn't unemployed I'd pay for half of your subs, jesus christ already, get over it!
 
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Seth said:
And you'r still not explaining why not using direct X 11 ?? you don't have arguments,or maybe you want to keep your 5 year old late and an update with DX11 will be done in five years when pc games will be running under DX17 ??
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If you don't understand graphics coding for games, why do you feel so compelled to comment and demand answers?

Choosing between directx 11 or 9 is really not that big an issue. Firstly, all existing cards support Dx9. However, you could have spent over $500 on a video card in xmas 2009 - or $1000 on a dual card setup - but you still cannot run Dx11. Running directx11 also excludes XP, and any of the older sim hardware and drivers that stopped receiving driver development.

Parts of the new directx API such as multi-threaded resource handling are supported on Direct3D 9 class hardware. Tons of new games come out in Dx9 - Borderlands 2 and Skyrim are two that come to mind (and this engine was released before them). To be frank, which directx version used is a very low priority when compared to the requisite skills of the graphic designer/coder. It is about the skill of the artists and amount of time spent on detail and optimizing code. Directx11 will not do this for you. Here is some real-world comparisons, actually biased in favour of dx11 (that is, not expertly done dx9, vs new dx11- centred optimizations). Still, there is not a whole heap of difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSfN7OTUOTA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz1vPluLMhw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7zVPPKE_OA

Directx9.0C still has a long way to go, with lots of visual improvements possible that you probably still haven't really seen (done well). Roughly speaking, all that is required is for ISI to spend a cpl of hundred man hours, going over the current state of the project's graphics content (ie say 2 skilled people for a fortnight, full time), and the game would not be recognizable. The more skillful the artists, the more jaw-dropping it will be. I am sure this is both low on the ISI priority list (best left til almost last, no?), and also well within their ability. Dx11 should be left for rF3, or if we got lucky a major rewrite of the graphics engine in a few years time.

In the meantime ISI and modders can focus on making dx9 look as good as it can.
 
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Spinelli said:
What in the hell is wrong with all you people? Why is this thread still going on???

For anyone that likes to pay $45 plus $13 a year every year , rather than a one time $85 and that's it (don't know why anyone would do that but that's besides the point), you:

A. get 2.5 years before you have to pay a single penny

B. your 1 free year starts June 2013, (should be at decent progress by then, probably another 4-7 updates from now). That means that your 1 free year didn't even start until a whole 18 months later!

C. you get an entire freaking month to play the game an unlimited amount (online and offline) to decide if you want a refund or not.

and D. you can request a full 100% refund for any reason, no questions asked!!!


So what the heck is wrong with all that??

Some of you gotta step outside, it's like you live on the computer. It's freaking $85, just buy the game, and be done with it, jesus christ. Or if you can't afford a whole one time that lasts you forever $85 purchase, then you don't even have to pay a single penny of your measly $13 online access fee for around another 1.5 years from now! That's summer 2014! Looong time from now boys.

Close this stupid thread already, if I wasn't unemployed I'd pay for half of your subs, jesus christ already, get over it!
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Get out the wrong side of the bed this morning did we? :D
 
Its not about the amount of money. As costumer you had the same rights if you pay 0,10 cents or 500 dollars.
The issue is about what has been said and what they are giving. Bashing people asking to understand why Isi made this changes and what they could expect in the future to the software development arguing that is cheap is stupid.
And btw, some people not only spent the game price. I spend money buying another gfx and power supply only thinking in rf2 since my pc wasn't need any upgrade at this time and my old gfx suposely hit recomended requirements announced.
 
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