A few changes, including refund policy

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 88mphTim, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    No, it isn't just you that wants that. But the only people who've ever given that were the guys developing Racing Legends. :)

    I just hope people realize I'm here and replying because you're important to me. I'm certainly not here to sell to you guys, you've already purchased. I maybe shouldn't try to explain and reply to stuff as much as I do. :)


    Sent from a mobile device using Tapatalk
     
  2. MaD_King

    MaD_King Registered

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    Good to hear, and because for the most here we already bought the game, we need more accurate answers on some point.
    A first step could be the list of feature planed and their average percentage of completion.

    We really need a status because so many questions are without or with vague answer from you. An this king of things are worried some customer, we need clear answer, an answer like : this feature is not decided to be added, this feature is not in our plan for the current year, this feature is planed as soon as possible is better than no answer.

    Thank you in advance for the time you pass on the forum, hope you can use it better than now, we need a communicator, not a moderator :)
     
  3. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    For me, it's very, very simple.
    Everyone who bought rF 2 with 1 year subscription during beta stage, until today, will have that subscription untouched until "gold" version arrives.
    So, Tim says, those guys have their subscription valid until June 2014. That means, the "gold" (or whatever name will that be) starts from June 2013 (so, in 6 months from now).
     
  4. TonyD

    TonyD Registered

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    I think that a lot of the angst we’ve seen here by the so-called end of rF2’s ‘beta’ phase is due to an expectation of what it would be like at this stage. I too (incorrectly) assumed that this would coincide with an update that would add more content and address some of the existing faults, but also the removal of the ‘money back’ option. I know of no other software that has the option of getting your money back after purchase if you are not satisfied, and while this doesn’t necessarily excuse ISI for releasing an ‘incomplete’ sim, it certainly removes the risk of purchase.

    I share shottyB’s point of view, and also would not take up any offer of a refund – I’d wager few would if it was to become a one-time option at this stage (try convincing the bean-counters of that, Tim :) ).

    A positive aspect of this change in status is the implication that ISI also do not consider rF2 ‘finished’, but have set a deadline of June 2013 for this to be achieved. I can see the June 2014 date being extended if this is not the case, so I don’t think that there is too much to worry about.

    Edit: Damn, I see that LesiU beat me to that last point!
     
  5. tjc

    tjc Member

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    I have to say Tim, as much as I appreciate you being on here and working hard to answer all our questions and deal with our moans and complaints as well as you do it would be nice to hear from Gjon or Joe or any of the dev team even once a week as Zeos says... I don`t think that would counter productive at all personally and actually think it would help the community and therefor rf2 but I know it`s not the way you guys want to do things which I do think is a pity...

    Anyhow, you have become the "face" of ISI to most of us Tim so no, don`t stop trying to explain things or replying to us like you do.

    It`s very much appreciated. :)
     
  6. TJones

    TJones Registered

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    Totaly agree with you tjc !

    I like to add: I think the theme is worth, for some statements from the "Chief of staff" :).
    Just a few lines about the latest changes, a small review over last year and the plans and expectations to 2013. Nothing against you Tim, i think you do a great job here, answering a lot of questions and helping out. So thank's for that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2013
  7. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Well, you're going to get another vague answer, because these are questions where only that is possible. :)

    You aren't going to get a list of features planned, because then there is expectation to deliver on all of them, and in every development something just simply doesn't happen. The exact same issue means not giving a timetable. Edit: although there will be a feature list on the public Web site which might work as this, perhaps.

    Percentages don't exist in development. As has been discussed before.

    If you truly, truly only want me to post information when I'm totally sure, and communicate with you like you want, you won't see me doing it very often. You certainly wouldn't have had any of the information on licenses, and the devs would never post. :(

    I know you want more info, I wish it could be given, but no dev really does it, and there's solid reasons for that from this side of the fence. Edit: And we've been through the 'weekly update' discussion before. I honestly don't think the community could cope with the amount of time it takes to do some things. If I posted today that someone is working on something, then everyone gets excited, then if they're still working on it week after week, things would be worse for everyone in both feeling and communication, not better.
     
  8. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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    LOL if those solid reasons are the ones that have be mentioned in previous threads, they are not so solid, seems to me it is just "that's the way we do it" All these "If we tell what we are doing that creates expectations" well are you telling me those expectations would be any different to the ones we all have between us? What indeed is wrong with expectations? You all know what we expect, hell the forum is full of expectations. The odd snippet of info about stuff that is getting close is not going to change anything except give us a chance to support and enjoy the process a little more. We don't want "this will happen this week" We just want "this is happening and it's getting there"

    An example is you saying that tire wear may indeed include blistering, an example of what some of us would like to see more of. Great! I look forward to seeing blistering when it comes, be it this week, month or year. See? no expectation it will be here in the next update, or the one after. Just happy happy, wow when it comes that is something I have never seen in a sim before :D
     
  9. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    That's because telling you that it would happen some point in the future, means it isn't happening now. The communication being asked for, means telling you now what's being worked on now, now. The expectation, if you really need an example, would be if he said he had started work on it now, then next week, he switched to something else, possibly because a piece of content needed something changing in the core. Standard question then would be about what happened to the thing he was working on last week, and I believe the community at large could not cope with that information (or rather, how the information changes, and how development won't match their expectations, or ours, or the estimations, etc).

    If you want this information, apply to be a tester, they see what's going into the upcoming updates, but they also understand something could get pulled from it, and not come back for a long time. The community would not, I believe.
     
  10. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Something like that is more likely. I'll ask.
     
  11. tjc

    tjc Member

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    I may just do that (apply to be a tester...)

    Got to say though, I don`t agree with that last paragraph at all... why wouldn`t the community be able to "cope" with having something in one build but hearing there`s a problem with that particular feature and then being told (or finding out) that it`s not in the next build?

    I`d say most of us here are adults that yes, would maybe be disappointed if a certain feature was in then out for a while, or even dropped completely but we`d be able to cope with it I`m sure. I accept there are some here and on every forum I`m sure that wouldn`t cope with it well but 90 0dd% of us would cope with perfectly well. We are adults so be best to treat us like adults imo.

    (Yeh, I also know that we can all be a bit childish sometimes but in general we are all adults)

    :)
     
  12. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    If everyone acted as such, I'd agree with you. I get google reports every time "rfactor" is mentioned on any Web site they index, and I see how things I say here are passed on with improper context and incomplete information, and how easily confused people are because of that. If you visit this forum, you probably have a different view and capability (because you are more aware) to those who do not.
     
  13. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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    Love to be a tester, how do I apply? because I have no expectations as to when things come out nor I think do many of the regulars here, but would love to help out and enjoy a deeper level of the process. I suppose I do see your point, been here long enough to know there are some folk that do seem to have the "I want it all now" mindset.
     
  14. tjc

    tjc Member

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    Top of the page Knight... Contact/Support > Employment. :)
     
  15. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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  16. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Here is an example of how simple misunderstandings can occur based on information given.
     
  17. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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    Hmm, but soon put right...but that takes time and I guess that is at a premium :)
     
  18. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Yeah, you'll notice I'm here doing it now, rather than during the week when I'm usually just too busy.

    Now if you consider that this is just a minor example from today, and just on this forum. If I hadn't responded (which is more likely during the week), that could have been a whole Japanese community somewhere else getting that info from him that was never said by anyone. Honestly, try setting up some google alerts for "rFactor2" - it's amazing some days. :) There's still thousands of people (members at some other forums) that think rF2 is a fully fledged subscription service of the same rate and frequency to iRacing, and when someone explains that it isn't the same, they generally get called a "fanboi" on the forums they're on.
     
  19. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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    Might just do that if I find myself looking for something to do...at the moment I am downloading the last full update as I seem to have done something terminal to my current install :rolleyes:
     
  20. JuzMnieBanowaliscie

    JuzMnieBanowaliscie Registered

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    I bought rF2 year ago and I want my money back, what I have to do ?
     

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