A few changes, including refund policy

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 88mphTim, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    60 laps in the Megane at Toban, no tyre changing. Set 6 or 7 really quick laps at the very end of the race, no issues.
    Im not really too worried though. it'll happen when it happens, and we all race the same conditions.
     
  2. Spyder

    Spyder Registered

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    Hi Tim, I know this shouldn't be a priority right now but was wondering if the menus in game and overall front end will be overhauled at any point? People moan about the in game graphics but I find those perfectly acceptable, the menus however seem very dated to my eyes, is this something ISI plan to improve?
     
  3. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    which cars lose grip Tim?...because i cant find them and would be good to know which ones do so i can study the files :confused:
     
  4. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    These sentiments have been passed on a few times. Frankly, I don't know. They are constantly still adding buttons, etc.

    The UI is supposed to be much more easily moddable (eventually) though, so I'd probably have a go myself if it doesn't end up changing.
     
  5. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    I'll find out, or try to find out, exactly what status is what. For flatspotting you can try it in the F2 easiest. Put the brake bias forward and on a long straight, slam the brakes and keep the throttle down so you keep on the same patch, you'll then get one if you're trying hard. ;)
     
  6. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    yep ive tested the flatspotting but its more the actual wear im after and not being able to run 24 laps after the tyre has gone to 0% wear left lol :rolleyes:
     
  7. coops

    coops Banned

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    wear and flat spotting is a big issue. im just wondering why we have not yet got the full use of this tyre mod yet ?
     
  8. Radar

    Radar Registered

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    Damn, I was hoping to try this out... ..
     
  9. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Of course, and I'm aware a lot of things have changed in their overall structure - otherwise it would have been more work to remove it than to leave it there in the first place ;)

    Look at tyre punctures - I've heard anecdotally that running a tyre to 0% either doesn't do anything or doesn't do anything for a while, and when something else decides to happen it could be a complete crash, or some very weird physics stuff happens and flips the car over.

    Unless the people I've heard this from were on something when they encountered this issue, there's a gap in the tyre model implementation. And that's fair enough, it's obviously complex. But filling the void doesn't mean either finishing that part of the new model, nor directly copy-pasting code from rF1 (which wouldn't work). Since there's an issue there, you know that at 0% a tyre will have a problem, and probably at some point the grip level it's returning will go crazy.

    So, as well as acknowledging the issue, put in a simple check for 0% (100% wear - or 99.99 if that avoids the problem...), and when that's detected you could just let the tyre remain on whatever it's at (let's say 0.01% wear left on it) but lower the grip it gives you. Then you never actually get a puncture (which will cause stability/physics issues) but it's still a worse state than the tyre was in before. We know the tyres work fine before they hit 0%, so while there's still something left on them just switch off wear and lower the grip.

    So you've made it useable, you can put a note in the knownissues so people understand why they're not actually getting punctures (but the tyre is slippery as hell), and no one's rF2 is crashing or throwing their car in the air. I realise it wouldn't be quite as easy as setting a 'grip' value instead of calculating it, but the game does allow you to disable tyre wear... so there has to be a switch for that at least.

    That's all I mean by filling in the gaps. The reference to rF1 is that in areas where the new model hasn't yet been completed (I'm assuming by the 'temporaryabrasion' parameter in the TGMs that more wear-related stuff is coming, for example) the less advanced stuff from rF1 would do - and I can't imagine it would be difficult to put something simple in place even if it's not a copy-paste.

    If tyre degradation is actually working at the moment I can only imagine it's done through the tyre geometry, because there's nothing in the realtime section to define the grip dropoff curve. If that is the case then good luck to anyone trying to get tyres right for their mod, because you'll need to try and balance handling and wear through geometry with hours separating trial runs.

    Otherwise, a simple wear vs grip curve (a la rF1) would give us something to play with for now. And when it's implemented properly in the new model we can adjust.
     
  10. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Why dont you try "RFactor 2 Testing Phase" or "RFactor 2 Development Build #xxx" or something along those lines. Many people got turned off by the fact it was called BETA when its much, much more of an Alpha. Now that its still in an Alpha state (definetely not BETA yet) the naming of just "RFactor 2" without at least the word "BETA" after it may turn more people off as they may be expecting a highly polished, feature rich and complete package of a game. You should maybe not use the word "BETA", but I think you should use something to distinguish the fact that the game is still in heavy development state, rather than a "gold" semi-finished version (followed of course by further updates/advances/minor bug fixes).
     
  11. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    If it takes still a lot of time with the tyres can we have bigger than X7 tyre wear at the moment? Or can I change this myself somehow? I do not have time to try 60 lap races (or any other sessions)...usually max 30 min races so 7X wear is not enough to actually feel any loss of grip. I do use trackmap plugin and there is tyre wear in % and I have had under 50% left but the grip feels quite the same as in 100%.. Of course at this state there is more rubber on a track. Also I have no clue what connection there should be between tyre wear and grip in racing tyres. Maybe green track works better for testing tyre wear effects but I like the real road too much :D

    Completed tyre modelling is propably the thing that I expect the most. I also look foward to damage and collison modelling.
     
  12. TTupsi

    TTupsi Registered

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    The current state of the game IS called rFactor2 build 134 but it doesn't change the fact that the game is rFactor 2. It was rFactor 2 when it was still in the drawing board ant it was rFactor 2 when the first builds were released. Beta is just a word that afterall offers nothing to the game itself. Yes, it gives users a direct message that the game is still in development but with a little bit of research one can find out that the game is still WIP.

    I also understand perfectly that ISI decided to drop Beta from the name without releasing a new build at the same time. If they would've happened at the same time, people would have thought that the new build was the final Gold version. As Tim said, there will be no Gold so it's logical that there is no beta either. ISI would have had to drop the beta at some point but if there is no gold, why not do it now? ISI took a new approach and I feel it shows great determination to make this bold move. For me it shows that ISI have 100% belief in themselves that this game will be the best there is. With beta in their name they could just go hiding behind that BETA and say "Hey, just wait, gold will come someday"(not that they have done, but could've). Without BETA tag they have nowhere to hide as people will be judging them based on the current state of the game. Sure, it will probably turn away some potential buyers but is ISI afterall after money? No. They are after a perfect racing simulator and all this shows that ISI believe that the game will be so good in the future that the people who maybe won't buy the game today, will do so one day.

    This is how I see the situation :)
     
  13. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    Oh I forgot to mention, that was 60 laps with 7x tyre wear on...;)
     
  14. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    In this matter ISI could say "Leave us alone, we know what we are doing" :D
     
  15. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    Yeah, that's what I tought. So actually they should have been in a condition that follows after 420 laps :D
     
  16. 88mphTim

    88mphTim racesimcentral.net

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    From dev:

    I've improved the abrasion which will help significantly with flatspotting (pending updates to the tire files), and am working on the rubber degradation. In the future it might even get more complex with graining and blistering.
     
  17. Max

    Max Registered

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    I enjoyed the "future" line :p Not to be flaming,
     
  18. TJones

    TJones Registered

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    Wow, that's interesting!

    Nice to hear, development of tyrephysics continue.
     
  19. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I have one question regarding one statement in the new official page for rf2 purchase. The sentence is the following:
    You may request a refund for rFactor2 if eligible. Your eligibility depends on when you made your purchase and is good for 30 days. 30 days should be more than enough time to see if development is moving at a pace you are happy with, or if the product is outside your tastes.

    Up to the date the time lapse from build to build has been normally more than 30 days. How is it possible then to evaluate that the development is moving at any pace in only 30 days? I really think you are not being sincere here. If I had to buy it under these conditions I would really have doubts...
     
  20. Spyder

    Spyder Registered

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    I guess they mean "30 days is more than enough time to decide if zero updates within that timeframe is a pace you are happy with" ... or something like that ;)
     

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