So....who has PCars?

Ok, steering-filtering problem is gone now. Have no extra steering/ input-lag.

 

If I recall correctly, Leo Bodnar or Chris Hoyle created RealFeel, not ISI.

 

Realfeel only used rFactor's (thus ISI's) steering arm force from telemetry. It didn't calculate forces based on equations etc etc. I suspect Leo Bodnar's plugin was a bit more complex in that sense, with some low-speed force generation in particular.

 

Thank you Emery for detailed RaceRoom inbox review and Hexagramme for his p.o.v. Buying more this one title.

 

I am starting to migrate from the "Arcade" view. I am now experimenting and tweeking Jack Spades FFB settings and have actually had some good fun hacking round Donington in the Formula Rookie.....yes, its way easier to drive than a real Formula Ford but when set up loose and pushed hard it deserves better than "Arcade" and better than any experience I have managed on Assetto Corsa. I made quite a fun set up with the old Mercedes 300 minimising all the diff settings and tweeking the FFB and now it drifts about in quite a fun manner, not a quick way to lap but enjoyably challenging. Potential recognised at last?

 

Thanks will look it up and watch the whole review

Link for those interested in a gamers review [video]http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/good-game/LE1439H013S00#playing[/video]

 

Thanks for that, I blocked out their personal thoughts once they said "we're not simracers" and concentrated on the game, dunno when they went to Bathurst but it looked very different in certain sections from what I saw last year! Also wish they turned off the Racing Line Markers.

 

lol no way im watching that but track-wise bathurst is very good fwiw

 

yeah sorry I was referring to track side objects, seems they've added a lot of what is not there to spruce it up maybe.

 

Agree , I take their opinion with a grain of slat(not even a grain really) but they are preaching to future sim racers on a mainstream medium and their opinion is disturbing really.

 

Just tried some FFB settings based on JackSpade (or whatever his name is)...Yes, they make the FFB feel more lively and engaging (regardless of wether it's technically more realistic or not), and they allow you to feel grip gain/loss characteristics better, as well as chassis/suspension bumps and overall movements.

Having said that, my thoughts about the vehicle dynamics haven't changed the slightest, FFB doesn't change physics.

Yup, I'm well aware ISI didn't create RealFeel

 

Force feedback changes our perception of the physics and therefore the way we drive. Or am I only talking on my own behalf here?
If the force feedback is set up wrong it will lead me to believe that the car has a certain characteristic that it really doesn't have.
The ffb will cheat me into thinking that the car is understeering when it's really not, as an example.

But anyway. I'm able to squeeze infinitely more "feel" out of pCARS than I've managed with AC during the 2 years I've had it.
Uncovering the physics by tuning the force feedback is really fun and deeply surprising how well SMS have managed to make this sim.
The Mz slider in the car tuning screen is the key for me. Also the "F" slider controlling vertical forces (who said they couldn't feel the bumps in the road??).

pCARS provides infinitely better offline racing than AC too, even though the AI isn't perfect.
They're not afraid of passing, they're not afraid of defending. They can go side by side with you without contact (think Sonoma, all the way through the esses!)

I'm thinking it can't be very fun to be a single minded AC fan these days, since pCARS has basically just swooped in from the right and managed to outperform it in pretty much every aspect.
Physics, force feedback, graphics, AI, career, features, track variety, etc.

 

Not for me , Yes, I can feel the limits of the car better and/or earlier therefore drive more consistently while also getting more tenths out of the car, and also get up to speed on a new car better/faster with better FFB, of course, but that's just from me driving better, it doesn't change how I perceive the car's physics to be, how it's moving, how it's acting/reacting based on inputs, how it slides, how it behaves as you go into a corner, exit, as you add lock, etc. etc. FFB doesn't change my perception of the vehicle dynamics at work.

I can play rF2 with FFB completely off, it doesn't change the absolute slightest thing for me with how the cars/physics behave/act/react. RF2 is still RF2, PC is still PC, etc.

I'm currently using a backup wheel (Logitech red "Momo Force") and not a single sim I play (RF2, GSCE, PC, AC, R3E, etc.) drive or seem to drive any differently than when I had my T500RS. It's identical to me. FFB different? Heck ya! Car/physics difference? Not the slightest to me

I've messed around with millions of RF1/GSCE/GTL/GTR1/R07 FFB settings, combined with at-least 5 different wheels (Momo Racing, G25, Momo Force, CSR, T500RS) - each of those wheels combined with countless amounts of FFB setups for each - and never once did any car seem, to me, to act/react/behave differently. It was always the exact identical car, with the exact identical characteristics but just with different FFB characteristics sent to my wheel, hence the car (obviously) always drove 100% identical.


An extreme example, but plugging in some amazing FFB into Need for Speed Shift - and therefore being able to feel things like the car's grip so much better through your wheel - doesn't change arcade physics. Sure, you'll drive better because of better FFB, and you'll feel more of the physics at work, but don't confuse driving better (because of more communicative and alive FFB) and feeling more physics with actual better physics.


Try to separate the two or your judgment of vehicle dynamics will always be based on and/or limited by your FFB experience.

 

Well we will just have to agree that we disagree on that then.

In rF2 the physics are directly connected to the force feedback so I wouldn't have the slightest clue of the car's behavior if I didn't have any forces coming through the wheel. I wouldn't be able to feel how close I am to the limit, how close the tires are to the limit of adhesion etc. Well yeah I would have some idea, but only AFTER going off the track. Here I'm not talking about obvious oversteer and understeer, I can tell by sounds and visual clues. No I mean all the subtleties that you have to be aware of if you want to be fast.

I am well aware that the force feedback doesn't change the physics one bit, but in my mind the two are still connected and determines how I drive the car. I am inexperienced still, compared to you anyway. But I'm still very fast so that way of thinking can't be completely bonkers I think.

If the forces tell me the opposite of what the car is doing I will drive badly. Or I will think to myself 'what an awful car, what on earth is going on here'.

 

Hm...never seen those. Are you on PRO Settings?

 

@Spinelli. +1

 

Got to agree with you here. Driving is all about feel and feedback. The difference between the good and the great could be sensitivity to find the maximum grip the tyres can deliver in any circumstance. Race tyres work in a much tighter envelope than road tyres so the sensitivity has to be more acute. The confusion for me is that now with PCars I spend all my time mucking about with FFB which stops me from getting round to setting up the car itself. I do think the developers should sort out some decent default settings for the most popular wheels.

 

I was talking about the video "..wish they..."

 

When you turn the wheel and the car doesn't rotate, isn't that a good indication that it's under steering? Do you really need FFB to tell you the car isn't turning. Back in the day we played GPL without FFB. FFB is a significant input in sim racing so good FFB is very important. But the underlying physics are much more important.

 

Exactly Noel.