Workshop Discussion..continue here...

[T@X]

Y
Try for example to read the reply above yours to see one very valid reason not to put stuff in the Workshop ASAP.
As you see, it has nothing to do with discrimination. You got the wrong interpretation, and it's becoming overly dramatic in my view.
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I'll again draw a parallel to my own music, because I think it's very comparable.

Do I feel like uploading rough WIP recordings unto iTunes?
Nope, that'd be a freaking disaster, because the recordings are not yet in a state fit for iTunes. It'd give people a completely wrong impression, of what the songs are supposed to be, and of what I am actually capable of.
Would I rather upload some of those WIP recording unto a small forum full of like-minded techy musicians, who can give me proper feedback and advice on song structures, mixing and mastering, etc. before I put the songs out for a wider audience?
Of course I would.

So there you go.

The reply is because they are commenting on a item NOT uploaded by a modder, and don't feel like they should provide their impressions.
And frankly i don't really find any link with the music in this case. ****ty music for the audience and a mod in version 0.70 upload using a modder's platform with notes and bugs description, are very different stuff to be compared
The workshop IS NOT a store like itunes, but a modding platform..

In case the users/testers want to provide feedback, they will need to be in a full duplex media, therefore this forum is perfect for that. Bear in mind that these are the ISI rFactor2 offical forums.

General public is different from niche public for every product in the whole market, not only videogames or racing simulators. For testing purposes, it's better just to keep the work within this forum, or at least that's what I think about my work.

Moreover, unfinished products, in this case mods, should not be available in a way that everyone can use them without explicitly knowing about their status and knowing what to expect. It would result in counter-producing results.

Define full duplex ?
They can comment exactly under the mods themselves, in a very well tought comment system and you receive a notification, and you can reply.
They can give ratings and there is a modder's fanbase system. Yes these are official forums and that is an OFFICIAL tool inside the sim.
Who do you think that bought the sim ? Simulation enthusiasts like you and me, even people that is still wandering around these forums have now moved their license there.

It seems that you think that there are only Mario Kart players on Steam, but IMO you're dead wrong.
All the best simulations (even flight ones like xplane and dcs that i love too) are now on Steam.

 

[Juergen-BY]

If a modder decide to use the steam workshop, surely he w`ll do. But this is a decision of the modder, not of everybody else.

 

[T@X]

If a modder decide to use the steam workshop, surely he w`ll do. But this is a decision of the modder, not of everybody else.

This point has already be discussed enough, and yes, absolutely is modder's decision to do it or not, BUT, why not ? That's all !

 

[Euskotracks]

This point has already be discussed enough, and yes, absolutely is modder's decision to do it or not, BUT, why not ? That's all !

Why not?
I already explained. In my case it is quite simple. I am no steam user because I need to run older builds. That's exactly the same case as the rest of the members of RaceRfactor community with over 50 official drivers paying a fee to compete in it. We will not be able to welcome any new member coming from steam since he will not be able to use older builds. Note that in some cases we have to roll back to an older build which is completely impossible with steam. It is not only about staying without updating.

So why would I feed something that has zero benefit to our community? "Boycotting" steam is the only weapon we have to make ISI see that until the possibility to use older builds, which seems to be available for other steam games, is available for rF2, steam is not functional for many leagues.

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[buddhatree]

If you're not the author, don't upload to the workshop. Gezz, it should be obvious.

Some guy uploaded a track that was version 1.1. The current version by the real author 1.11.

This ^^ is one of the many reasons you don't upload stuff that isn't yours. You might not have the latest version. Oh and it's not yours to upload.

The workshop is already looking untrustworthy with all the "This is not my work, but...." files.

 

[Euskotracks]

If you're not the author, don't upload to the workshop. Gezz, it should be obvious.

Some guy uploaded a track that was version 1.1. The current version by the real author 1.11.

This ^^ is one of the many reasons you don't upload stuff that isn't yours. You might not have the latest version. Oh and it's not yours to upload.

The workshop is already looking untrustworthy with all the "This is not my work, but...." files.

That's another reason for not uploading anything there. The seemingly lack of control of who is uploading content which is not their property is astonishing.

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[T@X]

If you're not the author, don't upload to the workshop. Gezz, it should be obvious.

Some guy uploaded a track that was version 1.1. The current version by the real author 1.11.

This ^^ is one of the many reasons you don't upload stuff that isn't yours. You might not have the latest version. Oh and it's not yours to upload.

The workshop is already looking untrustworthy with all the "This is not my work, but...." files.

I was and i still am that guy. I'saying that when the original modder will come to see or ask removal , it will be done in a second. Also, with the mods that i have the permission, i'm offering to mantain them. That is done because you have not the game, or don't want to even consider the workshop like an official tool. It's not unthrustworty i'm here. I'm giving credits, i'm trying to ask permissions from the people that is not there, and i'm trying to figure out if someone wants their stuff removed.

That has been done with the only purpose to let you know that there is a comunity there that you are totally ignoring and now i'm here asking why !?

 

[Juergen-BY]

Only modders should upload there files and nobody else. Is this to complicate to understand?

 

[T@X]

For the versions i understand, but still ,why a huge cummunity must be hurt because you don't still get to use older versions ? It will be implemented soon or not ? It's not a steam feature ?

 

[T@X]

Only modders should upload there files and nobody else. Is this to complicate to understand?

It's not and i agree 100% and i'm asking them kindly if they could consider to do it,but they are deliberately refusing. I want to try to understand why the torrents are fine for them and posting their work on steam that is an official modding platform it's not.
Looks like we have to do some outing here.
Maybe outlining the problems (like the versions for example) could help fix the issue. Discussing about it is good imo, because is so BAD and HUGLY that an official tool is being so hardly boycotted by it's same community.

 

[Woodee]

T@X..... what I think you should do with all these mod files which are in the PUBLIC DOMAIN.... upload them to mediafire, mediashare, megaupload, google drive, dropbox etc... A thing that EVERYONE HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO FROM DAY ONE. Because apparently this is ok....

I think many are under the illusion of "keeping control of their work". Once your work is out in the public domain, YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER IT. If you wanted control over it you would have made your car/track/addon a closed beta. So you would KNOW who had your mod and WHO was playing with it. You have control over your content.

How do you EVER think you would have control over a single file in the vastness of the internet?

If you posted a public link to a 0.9 then everyone shared that to everyone "and their dog"... you then thought, oh no... I want control over my content, 0.9 is not good enough. How do you do that exactly? Oh yeah... you put into google "recall file x from the internet permanently". YOU HAVE NO CONTROL, CONTROL IS AN ILLUSION!!!

If people hardly have control over their private CLOSED betas with leaks and such, how do you expect to control something released into the PUBLIC DOMAIN!? Remember you are releasing a file... you are not releasing the dev files and assets you used to create it... that is your control. If you had no confidence in the file you released in the first place, then you shouldn't have released it.

You know what the real problem is here? The "fear of steam".... the "fear of a vast audience now able to judge and critique your work for the first time since rF2 was released"... "released on a system that now has a comment and rating section viewable by pretty much EVERYONE".... and you know what I see? A lot of people that are afraid of that judgement.

 

[T@X]

Woody i agre on that, you know it. Not sure about the "fear of the audience" but , yeah it can be possible.

What i think that really is the most serious of the issues here, is the fact of disrespecting the sim they love and use itself, in the form of boycotting the devs move to Steam.
What you really should understand , and i'm referring to EVERYONE in this very conservative communityis that your behaviours are BAD. Your closure is slowely killing the sim in this exact moment.

The ISI move to Steam means for them more money to keep updating, upgrading and developing the simulator that YOU USE , YOU LOVE and that is YOUR driving and modding platform. Upgrading the netcode, working on the engine, adding more vehicles, buying new official licenses(they annouced the new official licensed hystorics, still FOR FREE, because they do not make pay you a cent for their work), tracks, features, platforms to build your leagues, they gave you a modding platform that is the workshop that you refuse to use but let me semplify another equation: lots , tons of mods easily available to try, judge, race, subscribe, remove, all in one integrated mass market platform means -> More popularity for the sim, more users attracted, more money for ISI, a much better and polished and updated product for you to race, servers repopulated, more leagues, championships, more people involved and a more active community for the only real simulator available.

And all you can say is that your problem is that you MUST use the old versions ? WTF is preventing you to update your friggin' servers guys ? Updating means racing in a better simulator, haveing new features, better netcode.

Is all this really THAT complicated to understand ?

 

[Nibiru]

Get it through your heads that the workshop and remote content are not public domains. Only steam users have the workshop and non-steam have remote. There is also more content in the workshop than in remote content and the workshop has just about all the legal content. But the non-steam users aren't making a big fuss over it. How can modders be boycotting if they can't access the workshop. Plus 90% of the stuff out there is doesn't make the criteria for the workshop (eg illegal)


If you really want to populate the workshop stop the complaining and start building.

 

[T@X]

I'm saying exactly that. They are offering the steam move for free.
THEY ARE KINDLY ASKING YOU TO MOVE.
Update and move on if you do care about this simulator. Let alone the non-legal stuff , there is really alot of content that could be contributed to promote the simulator and to keep money and new people flowing, to keep ISI at work to improve yours and everyone else's experience ,buying licenses and so on. Move on guys MOVE ON.

And please.

STOP that build yourself crap it's ridiculous. That's NOT the point of me wanting something. It's the community refusal to REALLY CHANGE and opening to new opportunities.


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[Nibiru]

The only one who has ever asked me to move is you...know one else. I have no need to change at the moment.

ISI don't make there money selling rF2 to you and me and the public. So don't kid yourself. If that was how they made there money they would have gone out of business a long time ago.

I have a league where all the content we use can be download from the server or from the website. That's enough for us.

 

[lordpantsington]

T@X..... what I think you should do with all these mod files which are in the PUBLIC DOMAIN.... upload them to mediafire, mediashare, megaupload, google drive, dropbox etc... A thing that EVERYONE HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO FROM DAY ONE. Because apparently this is ok....

No, it's not okay. Just because someone can, does not mean they have the right to. Yes someone has the ability to pirate anything nowadays to multiple places, but that does not give them the right.

Before you continue using public domain as a defensive crutch, you really should go look at its legal definition.

It's funny you are advising T@X to pirate usermade content, yet where are the things you uploaded to the workshop? Did you take them down? Were you forced to?

 

[Spinelli]

For sure it is not ripping but it's just messing around with someone else product.... (just think about clones, updates, etc..) The Author has to keep the control on his product and its distribution. Easy to understand.

+1

As long as the upload is kept up to date then I guess it doesn't matter who uploads it but I wouldn't have as much confidence in someone other than the mod-creator keeping the mod up to date.

Hopefully everyone can start using Steam Workshop.

 

[Euskotracks]

Loss of control?
Fear of Critics?

You guys are hilarious.

You can keep on claiming whatever you want. I already explained my reasons.
You don't seem to accept them. Others didn't even bother to answer. Think about the reason for it.

Nothing else to discuss from my side. Have fun.

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[T@X]

You don't give a damn at all right ?
1000 servers with all different builds means a dead online service, as infact almost is right now.
Everyone running his league, preventing the game to progress and new users to come.
Either not using the workshop neglecting the possibilities to create specific leagues and championships packages it's deadly because of the servers not always downloading the correct files to play. But who cares about others right ? U happy, so who cares about other people and the improvement of the sim as long as you are fine ?
In this case it's not your fault.
Updating shouldn't be optional at all and the old version discontinued.

 

[Juergen-BY]

...Updating shouldn't be optional at all and the old version discontinued.

For leagues (most of them i know) it is mandatory to decide, with wich build they want to continue there championships. The option in steam, to roll back to a previous build, would be a big benefit. Also to decide about updates. At least it`s my computer and i want to decide, wich things have to be updated and wich not. I`m just curious, in wich league are you racing?