UnitedRacingDesing presents...

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by UnitedRacingDesign, Dec 5, 2012.

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  1. UnitedRacingDesign

    UnitedRacingDesign Registered

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    Im not familiar actually whit those sites. I even didnt know about them before.
    The software will still need its time, what ever if the goal it reached or not so however the end result on that will be our cars will be sold and started on web shop. If that will go good we can stick whit that to but I do think that some software steam like for mods is good idea for all the mod, not just payware, free mods and everything could be controled there from news, updates...
    We will see how this will go. Oure priority right now is to get cars done and offer them over web shop.

    @1959nikos thank you!
     
  2. John

    John Registered

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    Many of us in the "converter" dark side are fully supportive of the pay for what we want modding. Just because we convert commercial models to get what in most cases modelers don't want to or can't find the time for, doesn't make us bad people. We are all part of the Sim racing community, and many of us do buy the games we "borrow" content from.

    This idea of Ales is our best chance to get the obscure and less popular race series into rFactor2, why would anyone not want to support this? So what if some kid rips the car or track - since when has that ever stopped anyone from doing what they love? Everyone knows the kid didn't make that thing. Even the highly lauded Historix mod (and team) had their roots in "illegal" ripping. We all know they have now added new content and have a cd check provided to them by Simbin, but the roots of that mod is still from the Dark side.

    This proves that even "we" can embrace new ideas. Ales has our FULL support.
     
  3. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Well, another kind of 'ripping' caused maker of Bob's track builder to stop development, some depression, etc. were caused because of that, but maybe that just don't count as it is not someone model, but instead some .exe and .dll files.

    Here ripping content from commercial game is considered crime and here they go after 9 year old girls downloading single album illegally, so I guess soon is model ripper's turn.

    "It does not matter if I only little bit", can't count how often that kind of thinking has lead to tragedy, smaller or bigger. It is problematic way of thinking and very deceiving as often there is no harm at all, or one will never know the harm, but there are reason why such thinking is considered problematic too.

    Oh yes, Ales, I think Kickstarter works only if one happens to be in US, there were limitations, but of course there might be similar platforms other places too. It is quite good idea really. Crowd funding in general.
     
  4. PorscheMR6

    PorscheMR6 Registered

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    seems legit
     
  5. Petros Mak

    Petros Mak Registered

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    That's what the indiegogo campaign is jtbo, the one here http://igg.me/p/291550

    It was made with the agreement of various artists and studio's to include everything in one campaign. Maybe that's what our mistake was, we included everything in one campaign. For us, just getting the stage 1 money would be enough to make the initial software for everyone to see and then they could judge for themselves if they wanted to support it further.

    The idea was that if we combined everything and we got more then what the software development costs were, that extra money could go to support the artists and their studios such as Ales and UnitedRacingDesigns. People misinterpreted the entire campaign.
     
  6. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    At this time, era, I think that no matter how you approach it, there will be negative voices, usually without reason.

    Only problem is that you are bit of pioneers, doing something that has not been done and many are afraid.

    But look at those saying negative things, look how many of them are able to do mods by themselves, how many of them do actually know what it takes to make a mod and you see that there are not many of them saying negative things about this.

    Just put up number showing how many man hours good mod takes to make, physics, graphics, eveything how many hours each person has to work and sum that together, put that number up and I'm sure there are only modders who will believe you, maybe not even all of them.

    With rF2 there is then that learning of things, it 'costs' time too.

    Just let negative be negative, do what you desire and at the end we are always wiser.
     
  7. Shadow Explorer

    Shadow Explorer Registered

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    Yes however this is for creating a hilarious DRM system,that limits your users on what they can do with the stuff they bought.
    Any mod outside your system will be better by design.

    If you want such system,
    licence or make your own game engine\game, then call it DLC manager and you have all the blessings to do that.



    I find it very interesting that you started a campaign like that....
    People who love modding,or modeling or anything creative
    care about funding their actual creations,not for creating a middleman program\service.

    So as I see it you are asking a community to pay for your middleman program that will make you money from selling modder's work that you don't have to pay a dime for...

    And most likely those people will plagiarize real designs and call it something else...
    Because in order to sell they have to be something familiar.
    That, until a car manufacturer joins the party...


    What are you trying to do is very dangerous for the whole modding community.
     
  8. 3Dnooblet

    3Dnooblet Registered

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    While i have been holding back from making any serious comments so to not clutter Ales's original topic, i cannot help but completely agree with ShadowExplorer.

    PS: Ales, make a new topic or can petros make a new thread for his funding. Its not fair all of this discussion is happening in your thread.
     
  9. UnitedRacingDesign

    UnitedRacingDesign Registered

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    @Paris as we talked allready we will not come togethere here actually. you see only DRM and not the whole idea behind that.

    And yeah guys please drop that outside this topic or leave it for now.
     
  10. Shadow Explorer

    Shadow Explorer Registered

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    The rest that comes with it are potentially more dangerous to modding than the DRM i hate so much... if it was just it, then I would choose not to support the service.

    It is the same reason I registered here,to know if i will buy and support RF2 or not..


    but this idea will potentially damage modding altogether.

    Game developers do everything to pass games as a form of art,then they treat it like a mere product.
    modding is the only true form of video game art without corporate chains tied to it.

    A mod should be free and no company should be able to touch it.
    Remember what happened to enduracers? ( I still believe that they should continue)
    If any of the mod sellers gets any license,they will definitely shut down any free mod with similar content to protect their income...
    Would you like such future for the modding you love so much?

    There will be no equality among modders anymore
    and no artistic freedom because always someone will be butthurt.

    That freedom we already have is already questionable
    and you guys are giving them the perfect reason to act against modding.

    In the end ask funds to make a game.present your work and let simracers decide if its worth it
    Game stock car is a mod for sale,but it respects everything it should,noone criticized it for
    being what it is.
     
  11. UnitedRacingDesign

    UnitedRacingDesign Registered

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    Yeah remember the enduracers? alot of free time implented into something that couldnt be released, that is modding? If a game offers you a base to create mods and youre beeing stoped than before release?
    As a modder, can you ensure you will finish and deliver youre mods?
    Ive posted same question on VirtualR.
    If you model something and show us few screens it doesnt mean you will deliver what you promised cause it can interfer youre private life and or real job into it.
    Didnt we actually talked about that this is actually god idea and you might even join in future? Well i see im wrong.
    You still dont see the whole idea actually behind it and you dont read everything.
    Butthurt is allways allready somebody in modding in some way or another.

    Sorry Paris we will not come togethere. Ive asked you to stop it here but i see you wont and youre goals are more youre goals only you can think off. How long are you now in modding? What were the mods you have finished sofar? Do you actually read think before you start comenting on something like that?
    What did just hapen whit youre Supergt mod for rf2? Izukon steped back from it, its exactly that, that we can cover. Make something you cant do and this is a fact. Dont tell me that you will continue as im sure as you as great 3d artist will but that is all sofar.
    Youre content has unknown future and it might never happen. And that is the real world my friend, as something free you cant be sure you can deliver it, you never know what will happen, especially if youre not secured.
    Youre not a modder if you dont release nothing so you cant really talk there is still last modding left or can it damage if there is nothing to be offered.
    How youre saying it its like we have lately so many scratch made mod that we really dont need anything and youre wrong. You should visit few sites that offer scratch made mods and you will see that in last 2 years there few cars beeing done only or tracks so what leaves us alot of content that could be licensed or fictional and thats again a fact you dont see it.
    You just see DRM and pay but you dont see that there is like none scratch made mods, just a way to complain about something that is not here anymore.
     
  12. Shadow Explorer

    Shadow Explorer Registered

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    This happens when interests are crossed,its exactly what we are talking about here.

    I can ensure you that im doing my best and even more,in life there is nothing certain.

    Making money from your work is a good idea but this plan is definitely not the one i had in mind. It compromises the whole commmunity
    I'm not talking about your store anyway... this is completely another story...

    Im in modding community by accident, it was 07 or 08
    I do read everything that is being written,and I understand what is going on... i contributed in some mods,Im sorry if I make you upset,I understand it is not the welcome you guys expected,but it is a good reason to revise your plans a bit.

    This is a public forum and I think I'm allowed to share my opinion.
    also i don't think you told me to stop writting earlier.
    I will not post anymore regarding this project,since you ask it.


    Somewhere there I think your post is turning into a personal attack,please leave my friends outside of this conversation,calm down a bit.and see things how they are.

    I will just tell you that a mod to be viable needs a lot of recources,so if you don't do it with your heart it might be difficult to continue.

    I wish you and the modding community all the best.
     
  13. UnitedRacingDesign

    UnitedRacingDesign Registered

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    Thx Paris.
    I still think that payware and free can work togethere. People usually chose what they want to build. If somebody is allready doing it there can still be changed plans or they could do it togethere to at the end but it is how it is. There are like no mods coming or some that were announcet were beein canceled or put on ice for longer time. Its not doable so much anymore as it was but community needs it and new games offer far more than we had in past but so less in the case of mods actually.
     
  14. Twista

    Twista Member

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    Seeing as I haven't seen anyone ask this yet, what's ISI's position on paying for software that runs on rFactor 2? Have you got permission from them before going ahead with this?
     
  15. UnitedRacingDesign

    UnitedRacingDesign Registered

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    This is actually the first time i see question that is good one.
    Yes i have talked to Gjon and to Tim about this and yes.

    I have been preparing myself around the whole idea for longer time, talking to ISI, to modders to community itself.
    If you look to one of the screens that is Bayro T5 model, you will even notice ISI team which was done whit permission.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2012
  16. dano1990

    dano1990 Registered

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    As an example, your T5 mod is based on DTM but without licenses, and your charging £5 for each car. what happens to your mod if someone else comes along and creates a free DTM with real cars, names etc? The community are then faced with a decision, Purchase a fictional mod or free download the same thing with real cars etc in. Not trying to put your work down ales but im pretty sure 95% of the comunity would rather a free download than having to pay for one especially with the current econimic climate.

    I like the idea of what your trying to do but personally i dont think it can really shine unless every single modder is using the same system.
    For every mod you make another modder out there somewhere will probably create the same content for free. For instance look at how many F1 2010/11/12 mods there are out there for rF1, same goes with the V8 Supercars mods theres 2 or 3 modding teams creating there own versions of the same thing.

    So unless you can get the majority of modders all working along the same system then unfortunatly i cant see you having much luck, and besides even if you do get every modder working on the same type of pay mod system, eventually everyone will start competing with the their own versions of already created mods but with cheaper prices etc.
     
  17. Abriel Nei

    Abriel Nei Registered

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    I don't see it like that dano1990. If that were true no one would go to the cinema because well if you wait a few months/years the same movie that was in the cinema will be shown on the TV for free. So there is a place for payed content bringing you stuff you want sooner. Yes you can usually get similar content for free but it might take a while. And unless it is a rip, you can never be sure if the quality is the same, but that is actually a problem for the payed content since you can always try free content but I don't know if you can try before buying the payed content.

    Another problem is dividing the community. If you look at rF2 or even rF1 there is a handful of server all running different content so it is pretty hard to find more than a few people running some mod you want to run. For example I like to run the Nissan GT1...good luck finding a server running it - there are a few but usually empty. If you add to that the requirement to pay for content it is just another reason for even less people running that same mod. And as rF2 (currently) requires you to have all the content the server is running...well what if I buy 1 of your cars but the server is running 2 of your cars - I can't join that server.

    Ales, I don't know if you considered it but I think a better way would be to offer like you said a poll on what content to do next. But this is not a regular poll, it is based on money. So people would donate for some content to be done. The content that raises the most money will be worked on first. People that donated would get some preview builds (call it beta versions if you will). But in the end you release the content for free to everyone so the whole community can enjoy your work and maybe attract some more people who will pay in your next poll. Of course you have to commit and always deliver that content and there is also the issue of other content (that did not "win") - you can give the money back or you can keep the money and start working on the content that raised the 2nd most money, then 3rd, etc.

    PS: Ales "whit" should be "with", might want to correct that on your site at least :)
     
  18. UnitedRacingDesign

    UnitedRacingDesign Registered

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    I keep and keep doing that....:eek:
    I thought about polls yes but never on that idea actually which is good one.

    @dano1990 any other modder team can take up a challenge whit us but question, once they anounce it, start to work on that mod we allready do or have, how will they keep up whit our speed in there free time? I usuall dont go and do stuff other people do, we have enough series to cover that nobody does or will do. And even if free modders start doing something its still the big question will it ever see the light?
    F1 mods are out for us that is for sure, maybe "fictional" turbo cars or something could be done but no modern ones and for sure none allready there.
    I want to cover LMP, supergt, gts and touring cars actually as this is where i have experience atmost and i did this kinda content in good quality before allready.
     
  19. Slothman

    Slothman Registered

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    Because, no matter what or who releases it, someone else will always think they can do a better job...always. Its what keeps things moving forward.

    If noone else worked on similair/same content we would only have what we have, never anything better.

    Also, have you considered the fact that a pretty large majority of leagues barely run standard/released versions of mods??

    Most I have been involved with (even ones I have run) will take a mod, replace the physics/settings/behaviours etc (note I never mentioned skins, I think we can take that as a given) and circulate for use within the League.

    So if you release a mod that is encrypted (so lets pretend it cant be modified) you are now stopping the biggest potential market of buyers, leagues.

    Consider each league could give you a potential...I dunno 10+ sales, why would they buy when they wish to modify/customise to their needs??

    Have you considered the possibility of "selling" the in game models for use??

    Just throwing ideas here. Personally, as mentioned, I like the general idea, but will be waiting for rF2 gold release before I even worry about checking out how software such as Mak Corps will work. Planning software based around a BETA that has potential to change.....I dunno....seems a little crazy to me.
     
  20. UnitedRacingDesign

    UnitedRacingDesign Registered

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    Lately there are barely scratch made mods actually and those who compete are usually now only conversions and F1 mods and that doesnt really moves things further but it messes up only everything.
    If we look rf1 servers you can barely join most of them if you dont have tons of stuff mods up, especially open wheelers.

    We will give support to the leagues and we will offer there a custom design what means that physics and some other stuff can be adjusted to there needs.
     
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