There is tvs that do have as good input lag figures as monitors, so its all about whats the intented usage and after you figure that out, you should do some research before buying. I bought my tv particularly gaming in mind and got one with as low input lag as I could find. http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-...d-tv-console-gaming-input-lag-list-chart.html http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/sub-1-frame-hdtv-monitor-input-lag-database.145141/ When talking about human eye, you cannot detect input lags under certain amount and even if you could your system itself causes limitations for it with 60hz. "A videogame console or PC will send out a new frame once it has finished performing the necessary calculations to create it. The rate at which this is achieved is measured with the frame rate. Using Gran Turismo 5 as an example, the maximum theoretical frame rate is 60 FPS (frames per second), which means the minimum theoretical input lag for the overall system is 17 ms (note: the maximum real world FPS in 3D mode is 40-50 FPS).[5] In situations where processor load is high (e.g. many cars are on-screen on a wet track), this can drop to 30 FPS (16 FPS for 3D mode) which is equivalent to 32 ms." Now when using your other senses with it, it is obvious that you can sense input lags lower than that, but as seen above the differences are very low if you have selected your monitor/tv with care. For example the 179fps method that keikei talks about, is not about what you see but what you feel in return from the game. If the games FFB refresh frequency is 60hz (like in iracing) thats the most you can feel. If its 400hz like in rF2, its much more precise and faster to get you realtime information (depending on your wheel), your monitor/tv doesnt have anything to do with that. http://insidesimracing.tv/forums/topic/2980-input-lag/ The player them selves is the biggest input lag of all with reaction times from 150 to 300ms You can test your selves here http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/
other than one small 32 inch tv at 31ms input lag, the rest of the tvs on the first list are completely ridiculous, between 35 and 103 ms of input lag!! My monitor current 60hz 23 inch Samaung PX2370 (TN panel) has about 3.3 ms (averaged over a 30 frame period), most monitors that people consider acceptable for serious gaming have under 8. The 2nd link shows 3 or 4 tvs with decent input lag just about 16 (one frame behind), these are very rare indeed. Also, as you can see, most of the tvs with any sort of decent input lag results are smaller 32" tvs. Those 2 50 inch samsungs and the panasonic are quite impressive, again this is very, very rare with most having 30-90ish ms input lag, which is fine for regular casual gaming, but not acceptable if you are some hardcore first person shooter, fighting, or sim-racing player. When I went from my CRT monitor (all crts have 0 input lag) to my first LCD, which was a beautiful expensive IPS panel monitor that killed my current TN panel monitor in terms of the image quality itself, I suddenly would sometimes over correct my slides, not correct in time, etc. I researched and found out about input lag. I couldn't really see it, but my game was clearly showing me a result of it based on my all of a sudden horrible driving, my seemingly late response to the cars handling, etc. I later found out my monitor had about 22 ms of input lag. I felt, and could see the effects if bad input lag before I ever even knew it existed. Now 22 ms is on the very, very low side for a tv, yet this completely ruined my driving. I wouldn't go with anything under than 6 at the most. Games, software, hardware, controllers, etc are updated much quicker than the monitor refresh rates, so it doesn't matter if you can't actually visually see it or not. Does the iracing physics engine also run at 60hz? What about it's controller input rate? You are only looking at the games ffb output rate.
I made this a while back using Six 50" TV's. The lag would be immense but my god what a feeling to be in there.
Actually it is about what you see (newest content possible to the screen) but when input lag is low enough, around under 40 ms in total, then you can't see the difference anymore (for example difference between real and virtual steering wheel) and it's basically experienced as a feeling like increased confidence, consistency and ability to catch slides. But still it's done through your eyes and therefore monitor plays an important role here.
Exactly, even if the input lag is hard to see (when you compare your wheel to the onscreen on really fast movements), it still will affect your driving, as was my case with my first IPS panel monitor (around 20-25 ms input lag). I couldn't really see it much compared to my real life wheel but boy was my driving suffering. I was always behind what the software was actually doing. It was a massive difference when I switched over to my current super low input lag monitor (60 hz TN panel 23 inch Samsung PX2370) , the change was noticed IMMEDIATELY, it almost felt like I was back on my CRT.
I have raced with triple 42's and a single 42 when frames were not good on 3 screens. One 42 didnt compare to the 3x27's or 3x24's I had before. tripples def better. Lag didnt concern me on the TV's either, my times didnt seem to drop. I guess games are not accurate enough for real racing, wouldnt a racing car with 3.3ms response time be an unusual thing? perhaps the sim should add some lag to compensate
3.3 ms is super super tiny, your steering wheel probably has more lag than that, most tvs are like 30-90, my IPS monitor had around 25 and it was affecting my car control and feel, at 3.3 ms on my current monitor it feels pretty much like my old CRT which was instant (all crts are 0ms) I wish there was a way to compensate, but unfortunately the game software isn't psychic.
What I meant was in any real car there is usually a slower reaction to our inputs, i.e. slop in the wheel, load on the tyre's etc. What about truck racing lol. When we are worrying about the lag that is only about one frame rate are we not getting to picky? The only way to remove the human factor in things like this is to have blind tests. Is the monitor affecting you as much as you are affecting yourself with thoughts about the input lag. Why is it that aliens can race almost anything and race better than us. Lag doesnt seem to impact them.
Perhaps they have done their homework and have chosen hardware and software setups to remove as much lag as possible.
But we all know that a lot have not, some are young and race with what they have which is less than a lot of us have.
The lag on my old LCD was ruining my driving, I could feel right away especially when you have to make very very quick and precise corrections. I never even knew about input lag back then, this was just all from pure feeling. I never got that feeling in real life lol
It could very well have had bad lag that impacted you're driving, I dont know the specs on it. Now we have a thread that goes to telling people that there is a difference between 8ms and 16ms when the reality is that it probably doesnt make any difference. I would agree that lower lag is better and that can be stated as a fact and that too high lag can be seen and that is bad. My only gripe in a conversation like this is when we have been bitten by too much lag and then we tell everyone that you cant live with less than 8ms as an example. I think it's a bit of overcompensation especially when we might shy people away from something that they would be happy with, like a tv as a monitor. I think the better advice is to make sure they do their homework and not get a high lag TV, not make them get a very low lag small screen that might not give them any practical advantage.
As a CRT user I think everyone needs to game on one of these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-GDM-FW...2693?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item3f1c6925f5 0.000000ms input lag and native 85Hz refresh @ 1920x1200.. Sex.
I've recently went to triple-screen action and it's bliss. Couldn't go back to single screen for anything. Before that I was gaming on a Pioneer 50" Kuro Elite so it was no slouch but this is just great now.
Ya it was between 20 and 25 ms, it was a beautiful 60hz IPS panel monitor, low response rate, gorgeous image, awesome viewing angles, very high end, but the input lag killed me, it's actually what made me want to go back to my CRT, and what made me start heavily looking for the monitor pantera just posted. Then I had a hard time finding one, did lots of research (for about a year) and got my current 60hz TN panel monitor with rated 3.3 ms input lag (averaged over 30 frame period).i mean the image quality, colours, viewing angle, etc don't come close to my old IPS panel lcds, but my current TN panel (and TN panels in general) have much less input lag, and cost much cheaper, at the expense of image quality and viewing angles though. Yup I was looking into those when I experienced my first ever LCD and it's bad input lag, but they are too hard to find, most people want a ton in shipping costs because of the weight, it's about 100 pounds, and too thick for triple screens. The image is supposed to be very, very good and accurate, actually I usually hear things like, "excellent", "kills my LCD", "drop dead gorgeous" etc. These were professional graphics design monitors going for $2000 before, they weren't consumer grade, but much higher as I'm sure you know
I decided to get one when they interviewed the head of graphics firm that did "300" and he had one right on his desk. Worth its weight. I have 3 btw and just swap them out every 3 months (can't fit 3 on my or ANY desk). Shipped the first from Cali to NY for <$120 and $100 for the monitor in shipping (FedEx smashed the bezel ) the other two I did local pickup which in New York is more likely to have them for sale than Oklahoma. Paid no more then $300 for each.
Man, that's golden! Their accuracy and colour reproduction, black levels, motion handling, etc etc annihilate lcds
