The Future of the ISI Packaging system, possible confirmation please

yes that's the new ISI thing with the FR, no problem with that, but if I want to install new sounds for the FR will it mean I cant race the mod Online anymore? anyone got the answer to that please?

 

Why don.t you all just wait and see.

What you cant have a league now ? I hear no one whining about those ? some said fantastic

Many mod teams are not too bothered yet they all waiting to see ........THAT WAS ALSO SAID 2.5 years ago !!

so stop whinging, they cant clarify everything when you want


ffs its worse the Need for Speed forum.

All these threads do is get "some airhead" going says somethings to offend ISI or Tim sensibilty

wtf is the use of that over n over

 

...and enter Durge to completley miss the point and go off on a tangent if you cant understand the discussion (all very polite and friendly btw) then please go away!

P.S. it's not just about League racing, Pick Up Racing and Offline too, again read it properly.

 

I don't mean you mate.



I mean when threads like this start '"airheads " pop out of the woodwork.

All they do is piss of Tim, like happened here again


In another simlar thread people get others going then they say ISI ic incompotent or som,e BS and get banned

tell me where is the value in that


As a group you guys do awesome things

Make a Co Op get together and present ISI with private stuff


that is way I would go.

Rather then to sit here and say " ......well we just do not know"

that is obvious.

 

His conclusions (or assumptions) that the -yet to be released- update is going to make things worse. we simply don't know as it doesn't exist yet.

 

I've used the packaging system for league use and I personally much prefer the way the vehicles are packaged from now onwards. No need to host both talent, sound and vehicle now (getmod does not work with multicmp).

Anyway, reading a bit backwards on this topic I found this, from November 2013.

I hope there is still progress made in this area.

 

tim I didn't mean no disrespect, just trying to be honest mate.

 

I think that people are confusing things:

As Tim said nothing has really changed so far. What they have done with FR35 is to put sounds and talent into vehicle component. I used to do this to put vehicles into dev mode by including the encrypted sound mas file into the vehicle folder and including the mas file reference in the gen files.

If I am not wrong, up to today it was not possible to change anything except for skins when entering online. Please correct me if necessary.

Where is the need to change talent files for online Racing? I just can't see the utility.

Changing sounds for online racing is for sure different since some people like to use their sounds. However, thinking carefully, I think it could be used for providing aids by exaggerating tire sliding sounds or providing a special engine sound to help shifting at a certain RPM.

So where is the problem?
I think ISI'S goal is to simplify the vmod creation system or actually making it unnecessary.
I think that all the required info to setup an online server could be included within the host menu, which definitely needs an upgrade (especially for parc ferme definition which needs to be specified within plr).

enviado mediante tapatalk

 

What I believe he means is that devs don't make games for the sake of other people's needs, nor should they.

 

Things we expect the average person might want to mod, won't be packaged. Talent and skins being added outside a package, even for AI. Creating an AI in-sim was the start of that process.

We have this crazy idea (wink) of eventually trying to make things easier for general users, and having the content as consistently used as possible in some cases. There is really no way for the multiplayer to be better served than what we're planning to do with this change. Really. It's clearly the #1 thing rF2 needs for MP progression (and no, it's not just automatic vMods). That's where things are coming from. The kind of micro modding some people want (your own engine sounds, something we now consider part of a vehicle it is from), rather than the one we provide, you're going to have a penalty for that of having to create your own package, and yes, if you're altering our car, then you're not using our car, you'll get a mismatch.

Hopefully explains, even if not agreed. I agree on face to face, I hate forums for this kind of thing. All I saw some people talking about this doing is inciting panic, and it's very annoying to see that. Which is why I didn't want to participate except for real queries like yours.

 

Well actually you don't need talent for online racing unless you allow AI cars on the server. I see ISI's point in combining everything in one component. They are making it easy for people that had problems understanding what they needed to include in a vmod. But this could have been solved with a better vmod tool that let you select a vmod and have it automatically grab all the other stuff for you. This really isn't a problem the first time around. But if your league uses GetMod, then adding one team (.veh/skin) to the teams.mas and repack you will force people to download a very large rfcmp with sounds that haven't even changed. I am guessing leagues will bust it up into multiple components rather than one big one. I guess doing it this way will help with the average user that is confused by MultiCmp's and then league admins with more knowledge can still break it up and do it the old way. It's just a shame we can't bust it up even more as another option. If people want to take advantage of a "Teams" rfcmp or a "Physics" rfcmp they can. If they don't want to they can do it the ISI way as one big Veh rfcmp.

The problem here is it seems no one understands the system enough to see the advantage of busting stuff up more. I haven't seen a single person yet that chimes in to say they see the value in this. I know my league members would love it if the 500MB updates every week or so could drop to 10MB a week.

 

I don't see us programming for consoles. I don't see any changes being made to benefit the developer over the user. Again, I think it just shows a lack of understanding on your part of who ISI are, what the product is, and even the topic at-hand, not helped by those bouncing off the walls in blind panic over something.

 

I can't speak about other leagues, but for mine, the sound is 20 MB and the vehicle (with all carskins) is 470 MB. Maybe this is not average case and sounds are a lot bigger, but for us the main problem is not sounds, it's how to deliver updates in a smooth way. With build 660 you cannot even update cars because vmod referencing to update breaks it (discussion here). So the only option at moment is to deliver a 500 MB package for each updated carskin, which is honestly a bit ridiculous way of doing it (since the skin transfer function is buggy as well at moment).

 

My league has a skin package, and included some generic cars for any non-regulars to use, with car skins being transferrable for those. We've downloaded a large package, once...

 

We don't do custom skins so don't have to worry about weekly updates for skins and even avoided some issues a while back because skin transfers were never enabled. If there was a push to have custom skins and it appeared a full redownload each race was the only way to get updates I'd be saying no, not yet.

YMMV...

 

Maybe your right Tim. Also maybe why rf isn't as popular as it should be. No good a sim being only accessible for the ultra experienced. You will never get a new fan base, unfortunately modding is a huge part of rf existence.





But i think Isi will do whatever Isi want to do. I think i actually read that elsewhere too. Shame cos you have one hell of a sim there.





Ill stick buy it because the ai are the best I've raced and it feels good. I have to either pay for my mods or rely on Isi releasing more content, because this modding lark is way over complicated for me.


one thing about Isi that does bother me is they seem to lose interest on things and move onto other projects rather than fixing and optimizing elements already in game. So itbdies seem nothings quite finished. Ie: wet weather, black objects in certain tracks. Malaysia. For example. Real road setting in to quickly. You also have a demo that showcases these errors to. Again not good advertising.



Yes im new i get it but if i think this after a few weeks then how many other starters will be put off. Anyway im gonna clock out because sometimes on this forum i do feel in over my head.


Sent from my RM-875_eu_euro1_260 using Tapatalk

 

Custom skins are quite essential if you want to have for example a special skin associated with certain event, or if a new team/driver joins league. But maybe the skin transfer works better now, need to re-test it. At least with build before 660 it caused some weird lag issues to several of our drivers so we disabled it.

 

I have several questions I believe are related to the packaging system:

Are the vehicle .mas files for all ISI cars encrypted today, and/or will they be in the future?

I notice in the civic demo that the garage only refers to springs generically relative hard, medium etc.
Is this unique to the demo? Do ISI cars outside the demo characterize spring rates in real units like rFactor 1?


Tim referred "....We worked with one team only, plus the car manual from the manufacturer..." In the FR3.5 2014 thread:

Normally when you buy a racing car the manufacturer supplies a car manual with basic dimensions that are used by the user to develop setups. When this basic info is not provided, the owner also has the option to measure the car themselves.

With a locked veh.mas you cannot access basic dimensional characteristics, and there may be few options to measure a virtual car.

I appreciate why game physics engine and proprietary team information may be confidential. Sharing some of manufacturer car manual information as an ISI car manual, would be helpful for developing skills in setup development. I have more interest in being able to learn setup development using accepted principles than knowing how or what a particular team came up with for a setup.

Appreciate feedback

Thanks

 

Yes they do.

 

Yes that's true that sounds for a single car are often small but when you have 10 models or so it adds up. If you add up all the sound components for all our models it comes to about 300mb. But all the teams are the biggest for is too. It would be nice if it was a stand alone component so that physics could be changed without forcing people to download the teams all over again. But as I have said, along with just about every other admin, update components also need to be fully incremental and they need to support GetMod.

Right now an update (like in Tim's example) for adding teams is ridiculous. Tim probably doesn't know this but you can't add one team in an update. You actually have to include all the existing teams along with the new one in an update. So the update component is hardly any smaller than the original. Personally it should work like this:

1: Base cmp has one test car
2: Team A joins so you make a MAS file with only this one new team and build an update cmp that depends on the base cmp.
3: Team B joins. So you build a MAS with just that new team and build an update that depends on the last update.

The vmod then includes the base cmp along with each update and each one is registered for GetMod. So when someone joins they could already have the base cmp and only need to GetMod the two updates. Or if they have the base cmp and the first update, all they need to GetMod is the second update. In the last case there only downloading a 5mb update.

The way it works now is like this:
1: Base cmp includes one test car
2: Team A joins so you build a new MAS that includes the test car and the new team. Then you build an update cmp that depends on the base cmp.
3: Team B joins so you build a new MAS that includes the test car, team A and team b. Then you build an update that depends on the base cmp.

You can't include all of the cmps in the vmod so GetMod doesn't work.

Right now updates can hardly even be called updates. They aren't incremental. I understand it can get confusing having updates that depend on updates. But in a league you have an admin that controls all this within the vmod and with GetMod the users just join the server and all the dependencies are resolved and what ever is needed should downloaded automatically.

But it is what it is. We admins don't know how it works and we are bouncing off the walls for no reason. It's like Apple, "your holding it wrong".