[REL] SMMG Formula 3 Series (2019-2020-2021-2022-2023-2024) 2.20

Today I noticed GP3 bounces similarly (maybe a little less) . So it's not something that specific to the F3.
Another thing they have in common is that, even with max allowed brake force (100kgf), I can never lockup wheels. Maybe that's partially because the tires have so much grip? But isn't it some braking force limitation/capping made by the series? It makes the cars less challenging to drive.
 
avenger82 said:
Today I noticed GP3 bounces similarly (maybe a little less) . So it's not something that specific to the F3.
Another thing they have in common is that, even with max allowed brake force (100kgf), I can never lockup wheels. Maybe that's partially because the tires have so much grip? But isn't it some braking force limitation/capping made by the series? It makes the cars less challenging to drive.
Click to expand...

I love how the braking is on these cars, and yes, you can lock them up, if you do trail braking!
 
on the videos there's nothing abnormal when you take vibrators with a single-seater like that it moves in all directions, but with the Group-C the behavior is strange!
 
That last corner of Zolder is very bumpy even with other cars, I don't think it has anything to do with this F3 specifically.
 
I got info by "Mr.D" about that "excessive bumping" that seems to appear in videos, of course I refer to the post of few days ago.

Here some sentence and more questions that could rise:
This excessive bumpy can come for different reasons, as you said a part of RF2 settings (code) or a bumpy part of the track...
If is always in ALL slow corners could be too hard on front? I mean, too hard on from part of suspension, too hard springs, too much inside "bump rubbers"...
We need more info to afford this, have any issue on braking? On power? Or just when go over the kerbs?
With a video is very difficult to see a problem, at least send a data screenshot... (of course here Mr.D refers to Motec data)

I can say that other posts seem to confirm that reason of the excessive bouncing is more track related, also because I never had braking/power problems in the GP3 and Formula3 mods. And I assume the F3 was using the default setup...

Thank you "Mr. D"!
 
Slow Motion said:
I got info by "Mr.D" about that "excessive bumping" that seems to appear in videos, of course I refer to the post of few days ago.

Here some sentence and more questions that could rise:
This excessive bumpy can come for different reasons, as you said a part of RF2 settings (code) or a bumpy part of the track...
If is always in ALL slow corners could be too hard on front? I mean, too hard on from part of suspension, too hard springs, too much inside "bump rubbers"...
We need more info to afford this, have any issue on braking? On power? Or just when go over the kerbs?
With a video is very difficult to see a problem, at least send a data screenshot... (of course here Mr.D refers to Motec data)

I can say that other posts seem to confirm that reason of the excessive bouncing is more track related, also because I never had braking/power problems in the GP3 and Formula3 mods. And I assume the F3 was using the default setup...

Thank you "Mr. D"!
Click to expand...
I'll try to provide some Motec data soon. It surely is not always in all corners, but it can happen to lesser extent in other corners. Not necessarily on such slow corners IIRC. Car setup was default or very close so technically anyone can reproduce.
 
avenger82 said:
I'll try to provide some Motec data soon. It surely is not always in all corners, but it can happen to lesser extent in other corners. Not necessarily on such slow corners IIRC. Car setup was default or very close so technically anyone can reproduce.
Click to expand...
Good... what I'd like to know if it is something happening also in other mods... If yes, we should start to think that is something more... any feedback is welcome!
 

Attachments

avenger82 said:
Here are two runs from GP3 at the same track part. There's similar bumpiness.

View attachment 29248

Second:
View attachment 29249

I hope it helps somehow. If different channels are needed I can generate it etc.
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Is there a channel that records the tire grip?
If i look at my replay, it looks as if the front tire (left one in the right corner before the start/finish line) looses and gains grip in a high frequency.
It remembers me at the dtm cars, that were bouncing a lot when braking.
But that was caused by aerodynamics, if i remember it right.
 
Bernd said:
Is there a channel that records the tire grip?
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I don't think there is direct channel for tire grip. I think in the template I was basing on I saw math channel that calculated grip, but I didn't check it.

Bernd said:
If i look at my replay, it looks as if the front tire (left one in the right corner before the start/finish line) looses and gains grip in a high frequency.
Click to expand...
If it's not very high frequency then isn't it just result of the bouncing?
 
I'll try to ask again "Mr.D" also with collected data, but one thing lets me dubious: GP3 and F3 have just different front suspensions, different springs (IRL more different than what the rF2 code can manage in the case of the GP3).
Physics we developed takes care of that, because at a mechanical level this is the only difference between the GP3 and the F3!
If also GP3 behaves in the same way... the answer can be only one: it isn't a suspension problem.
 
Slow Motion said:
I'll try to ask again "Mr.D" also with collected data, but one thing lets me dubious: GP3 and F3 have just different front suspensions, different springs (IRL more different than what the rF2 code can manage in the case of the GP3).
Physics we developed takes care of that, because at a mechanical level this is the only difference between the GP3 and the F3!
If also GP3 behaves in the same way... the answer can be only one: it isn't a suspension problem.
Click to expand...
GP3 is seems little less bouncy, but yeah it's similar. The Motec logs I send are from the runs that the bouncing effect was more evident.
If you say suspensions are different and as I understand at least one of the cars (GP3?) shouldn't bounce like that, then perhaps it's caused by tires stiffness:
This week the focus was on the reported “bounciness” of the BMW M2 coming off curbs. These improvements were made in a few areas – we started with optimizing stiffness for the updated tyres.
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From https://www.studio-397.com/2020/02/build-1117-and-content-weekly-updates/

They updated many things in the BMW M2 CS to reduce bounciness:
  • Slightly softer steering links to reduce vibration
  • Slightly lower center of gravity to match the data
  • Tweaked differential locks and preload (higher)
  • New default front camber set to -3.0 deg
  • Readjusted dampers
  • Reduced the bounciness over curbs
So it's quite possible it's related i.e. perhaps tires are too stiff.
 
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avenger82 said:
GP3 is seems little less bouncy, but yeah it's similar. The Motec logs I send are from the runs that the bouncing effect was more evident.
If you say suspensions are different and as I understand at least one of the cars (GP3?) shouldn't be bounce like that, then perhaps it's caused by tires stiffness:

From https://www.studio-397.com/2020/02/build-1117-and-content-weekly-updates/

They updated many things in the BMW M2 CS to reduce bounciness:
  • Slightly softer steering links to reduce vibration
  • Slightly lower center of gravity to match the data
  • Tweaked differential locks and preload (higher)
  • New default front camber set to -3.0 deg
  • Readjusted dampers
  • Reduced the bounciness over curbs
So it's quite possible it's related i.e. perhaps tires are to stiff.
Click to expand...
I know the statement... and tests were made internally about that, BUT the sentence optimizing stiffness for the updated tyres can mean all and nothing. Unfortunately S397 no longer informs about changes in a detailed way... if the sentence means that changes were made to the tire TGM files, we can do nothing, because nobody has way to use this kind of latest tires, nor newer database and tool.
On my side the conversation, also if it is very interesting, stops here. If a day someone will provide new detail technical info and new coded tires to be freely used, I'll be happy to update mod(s).
 
Slow Motion said:
I know the statement... and tests were made internally about that, BUT the sentence optimizing stiffness for the updated tyres can mean all and nothing. Unfortunately S397 no longer informs about changes in a detailed way... if the sentence means that changes were made to the tire TGM files, we can do nothing, because nobody has way to use this kind of latest tires, nor newer database and tool.
On my side the conversation, also if it is very interesting, stops here. If a day someone will provide new detail technical info and new coded tires to be freely used, I'll be happy to update mod(s).
Click to expand...
I remember that you said earlier that Michael Borda helped you creating tires for GP3. I don't know if it's possible to ask him directly, or maybe via someone else. If it's indeed an issue with some tires, or even tire model then it would be nice to have feedback and perhaps new version of ttool release in near future.
I checked few other S397 historic formula 1 cars on Zolder and they are not bouncy, or much less so. So it looks many cars are not affected.
 
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