[REL] SMMG Formula 3 2020 WIP BETA 0.59

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by Slow Motion, Nov 22, 2018.

  1. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Today I noticed GP3 bounces similarly (maybe a little less) . So it's not something that specific to the F3.
    Another thing they have in common is that, even with max allowed brake force (100kgf), I can never lockup wheels. Maybe that's partially because the tires have so much grip? But isn't it some braking force limitation/capping made by the series? It makes the cars less challenging to drive.
     
  2. Brack Jabham

    Brack Jabham Registered

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  3. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

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    I love how the braking is on these cars, and yes, you can lock them up, if you do trail braking!
     
  4. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

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    on the videos there's nothing abnormal when you take vibrators with a single-seater like that it moves in all directions, but with the Group-C the behavior is strange!
     
  5. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    I asked for differences in behaviour between real and mod... we must wait for knowing some more.

    About brakes we know they are exactly like the real car is, because they were tested by real driver and he asked for this behaviour. Same on engineer side.
     
  6. Prodigy

    Prodigy Registered

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    That last corner of Zolder is very bumpy even with other cars, I don't think it has anything to do with this F3 specifically.
     
  7. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    I got info by "Mr.D" about that "excessive bumping" that seems to appear in videos, of course I refer to the post of few days ago.

    Here some sentence and more questions that could rise:
    This excessive bumpy can come for different reasons, as you said a part of RF2 settings (code) or a bumpy part of the track...
    If is always in ALL slow corners could be too hard on front? I mean, too hard on from part of suspension, too hard springs, too much inside "bump rubbers"...
    We need more info to afford this, have any issue on braking? On power? Or just when go over the kerbs?
    With a video is very difficult to see a problem, at least send a data screenshot... (of course here Mr.D refers to Motec data)


    I can say that other posts seem to confirm that reason of the excessive bouncing is more track related, also because I never had braking/power problems in the GP3 and Formula3 mods. And I assume the F3 was using the default setup...

    Thank you "Mr. D"!
     
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  8. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    I'll try to provide some Motec data soon. It surely is not always in all corners, but it can happen to lesser extent in other corners. Not necessarily on such slow corners IIRC. Car setup was default or very close so technically anyone can reproduce.
     
  9. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    Good... what I'd like to know if it is something happening also in other mods... If yes, we should start to think that is something more... any feedback is welcome!
     
  10. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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  11. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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  12. Bernd

    Bernd Registered

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    Is there a channel that records the tire grip?
    If i look at my replay, it looks as if the front tire (left one in the right corner before the start/finish line) looses and gains grip in a high frequency.
    It remembers me at the dtm cars, that were bouncing a lot when braking.
    But that was caused by aerodynamics, if i remember it right.
     
  13. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    I don't think there is direct channel for tire grip. I think in the template I was basing on I saw math channel that calculated grip, but I didn't check it.

    If it's not very high frequency then isn't it just result of the bouncing?
     
  14. Bernd

    Bernd Registered

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    That's the good old question.
    What was first, the chicken or the egg? :)
     
  15. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    I'll try to ask again "Mr.D" also with collected data, but one thing lets me dubious: GP3 and F3 have just different front suspensions, different springs (IRL more different than what the rF2 code can manage in the case of the GP3).
    Physics we developed takes care of that, because at a mechanical level this is the only difference between the GP3 and the F3!
    If also GP3 behaves in the same way... the answer can be only one: it isn't a suspension problem.
     
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  16. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    GP3 is seems little less bouncy, but yeah it's similar. The Motec logs I send are from the runs that the bouncing effect was more evident.
    If you say suspensions are different and as I understand at least one of the cars (GP3?) shouldn't bounce like that, then perhaps it's caused by tires stiffness:
    From https://www.studio-397.com/2020/02/build-1117-and-content-weekly-updates/

    They updated many things in the BMW M2 CS to reduce bounciness:
    • Slightly softer steering links to reduce vibration
    • Slightly lower center of gravity to match the data
    • Tweaked differential locks and preload (higher)
    • New default front camber set to -3.0 deg
    • Readjusted dampers
    • Reduced the bounciness over curbs
    So it's quite possible it's related i.e. perhaps tires are too stiff.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  17. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    I know the statement... and tests were made internally about that, BUT the sentence optimizing stiffness for the updated tyres can mean all and nothing. Unfortunately S397 no longer informs about changes in a detailed way... if the sentence means that changes were made to the tire TGM files, we can do nothing, because nobody has way to use this kind of latest tires, nor newer database and tool.
    On my side the conversation, also if it is very interesting, stops here. If a day someone will provide new detail technical info and new coded tires to be freely used, I'll be happy to update mod(s).
     
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  18. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    I remember that you said earlier that Michael Borda helped you creating tires for GP3. I don't know if it's possible to ask him directly, or maybe via someone else. If it's indeed an issue with some tires, or even tire model then it would be nice to have feedback and perhaps new version of ttool release in near future.
    I checked few other S397 historic formula 1 cars on Zolder and they are not bouncy, or much less so. So it looks many cars are not affected.
     
  19. zxd1997

    zxd1997 Registered

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    so WHY S397 NEVERV REL NEW TYRES again? Prevent modders to work on rf2?
     
  20. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    What's wrong with the existing ones?
     
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