Sim Racing servo ffb systems : OSW & Bodnar

Spin, I look forward to your reply from ollie cos it doesn't make sense why he'd sell the sim-pie instead of just the ioni kit (not even pro version) with that psu that can only output 12.5A peak. Stock IONI (non-pro) is already a more than suitable match of up to 15A, Pro 18A whilst Sim-pie can go up to 30A. Seems like a total waste to get sim-pie with that psu unless I'm missing something.

 

korva7 sent you a PM

spinilli

using big midge on ollies kit as comes will run it at max peak 21Nm , option later (+some cost) for additional power add-on to run at full peak 30Nm ( no idea why this would be needed but out of curiosity I'm giving it a go) so the original PSU & small mige is perhaps a really great combo

ollies custom board is aparently ready for this too, the custom board also allows for certain components to be to be not needed
(which would add to cost & make build a tad more complex ....not good for some )
( as essential chips for ffb only etc are on the board )
I have it wrote down somewhere but don't see it's a critical info as I'll only ever use this system for ffb ( so why be interested + I have more important things in my head lol )


re.power supply etc -ollies kit has been put together to offer a highly economical solution , some people are claiming they prefer the small midge over large ( & vice versa ) so no need to supply a more expensive PSU for small
( + he's bulk buying & has maybe only just made min quantitys to get fantastic price etc )
his package is incredibly good value, we are lucky to get this sort of system for below £2500 at least

also the more recent trend is "the more Nm the better" so maybe he's simply added on the large as an option ( & started to work on his add-on pack )

ps he had first batch of his custom boards but there was a manufacturing fault on them, so that's why it's not in the pic + small delay for 1st batch deliveries apparently

ps above is just the way i see it anyhow, if your interested in the kit just get yourself on the waiting list - either small or large midge would totally abliterate sim-ffb in the quality
( & power ) dept ....then forget about & enjoy life until it shows up , happy times

(I've ordered both small & large as the costs are so incredibly cheap + I might build another system during the winter with the spare )

if the penny hasnt dropped yet .....this is a totally obvious no brainer & in the almost instantly obvious "to good to be true" category (I jumped in and about 4 pals followed although i dont think they realise the value as they are asking odd questions lol)

 

Adrian, which of the two large mige's is included in ollie's kit? The M15015 or M15025?

I'm guessing the M15015 if Ollie's stated it'll do around 19.5Nm with a 600W 48V psu. But can you confirm please.

 

yes its the M15015. ( large mige )

I'm really looking forward to confirm that they'll feel very very similar
but at the same time I'm hoping I'm wrong
( on the interests of variety lol )

 

So is the following incorrect then (regarding the PSU in Ollie's kit)?: "It's limited to 12.5A peak-of-sine (=8.8A rms) which will only give a peak torque for the small mige of 19.5Nm."

19.5 Nm Small MiGe and 13.9 Nm Large MiGe...

 

Copied from earlier post
Psu is: Mean Well PSP-600-48 (600W switched-mode PSU)
(large midge up to tested 21Nm)
there will be a later available optional add-on to drive it to 30Nm
small midge apparently tested at 19Nm - 19.5Nm

 

Went with the 52 way than enough power for myself and still able to upgrade fairly cheaply if needed ( I meant cheap in context!)

 

Thank you very much Adrianstealth and Juergen-BY

 

good choice mark7

yes your right imo -the 52 has phoniminal power with ample head room + can give a hell of nice sharp kick
by being able to test something more powerful (i think the add on power etc will be ready for when i receive the OSW gear)
I hope to put my curiosity to rest, you have a high quality system +components at the higher end of the expenditure scale there

 

Adrian, Yep it was a tough choice between the OSW kit and Bodnar but the quality of kit, built in safety features ( i have a 5 year old who likes to play!) and ease of use made my mind up.
During my first mid life chrisis i've owned a couple of Caterham sports cars and the difference is similiar between those and lesser kit cars and these wheel systems.

 

finally got round to starting on the f1 wheel mod, I had a great plan of gutting it a bit but carefully so to utilise the existing buttons for speed, this would give me enough space for a few rotarys too,

but after looking it would be faster / cleaner to simply route the bodnar circuit into existing plug, just a matter of pressing all buttons and writing down colour to which button etc to create a diagram ,
( other method would be to scratch circuit to block its routem& simply solder onto the back of the button contacts on circuit )
could still add a few rotarys ( but not exactly where I'd want them ) , but don't think these plugs are simple circuit breakers ( but got to check! )


if anyone has a diagram that would save me some time lol




back to original plan (soldering ) , those cables carry a signal ( be great if someone made an adaptor pcb)
....so into destruction mode, looking forward to soldering as I find it relaxing

those little wires that are coming out of the handles are to a small motor inside each grip
-these are weighted so they are vibration units, going to leave in and wire them to a small female inlet, I might conect simvibe to these at a later date just to test
( I'm using a buttkicker next to my wheel with great results on rig so no urgency )
so glad I use VR + believe it will become mainstream as I don't have to bother with a display,
will order some rotarys tomorrow -needed for in dial adjustments on the f1



Circuit board seemed very tough to cut -so I switched to a metal hack saw with a sharp blade which went through it like butter ( seems odd cutting up something bran new )

monkey QR will fit no probs, will ensure centered then mark up to drill holes & bolt on
Thinking about tapping out for some standard threads so it will be easier to remove QR if ever needed



just looking at circuit board (bodnar) I have a few enclosures if I mount to rear outer
need to keep room inside for rotary's which are essential for f1 engine power / fuel mix etc
( dynamic track coming to Iracing & like in rf2 I wonder if engine & fuel etc might help tone things down a tad prior to rubber build up etc)
+I'm starting to suspect the really fast use these dials whilst on track

Bondar circuit is brill, buttons wired in" matrix " mode makes things very simple
( bodnar circuit is £20 )
Tempted to cut bottom part of pcb off & use those 3 holes for rotarys then a 4th rotary in center with a larger knob

Got to map out the 2x 5 way thump paddles ( close to center near grips ) these are little hat switches ( 4 directions & 1 push click ) with these + upper buttons there's plenty
18 buttons ( including hats ) that's with doing away with bottom x3 for more space for rotarys
-I think a good idea as x3 rotarys will look well positioned there

I have stacks of cable, heat shrink, buttons / knobs etc
Although I'll order some bran new rotarys ( I think bodnar ones about £3 to £4 each )

This is a very cheap & easy modded / personalised f1 wheel

 

So you're confirming the large mige has been tested up to 21Nm and the small mige up to 19.5Nm with the exact same psu (Mean Well PSP-600-48 (600W switched-mode PSU)?

That seems to defy Mige Motors own spec ratings (page 11 here: http://vs-cnc.com.ua/images/Сервопривод/servo motors catalogue.pdf).

The small mige has a 40% higher Torque coefficient (N.m/A) rating than the large mige which should imply for the same amount of current supplied to both motors the small mige will have a 40% higher torque output than the large mige

I could be wrong/missing something here but don't think i am. Either way, if i am wrong i don't know how so whoever is your source for this information you've provided, can you please double check with them that they are saying the Mean Well PSP-600-48 PSU will produce a peak torque of 19.5Nm and 21Nm for the small and large mige motors respectively.

Thanks.

p.s. nice work on the formula rim mod so far.

 

hi dripper , Pretty sure that's the case but I'll check back, nothing seemed strange to me as perhaps this is based on recommended settings etc ( or the file supplied for each mige & maybe preset this way for one reason or another ) but then I don't have the time to look into to deeply etc

I'll double check

 

here we go :
figures to be exact purely based on standard settings & power etc available
( using ollies kit ), we'll put to the side any test claims etc

130ST-M10010 (small MiGE) 20Nm ( 2.2 Nm per amp )
130ST-M15015 (large MiGE) 19.983Nm ( about same, but about 30Nm once add-on a fitted ) ( 1.57Nm per amp )

iron pro can deliver 18a ( peak of sine, 12.728A)


small mige can be overdriven to 25Nm ( I have zero interest in doing this ) by settings in the MMC ,
+scale may not be liner past the rated max peak (not that this would make any difference for sim ffb anyhow ........." hey the quality in the upper levels of that force I just felt when I hit that curb felt not good as it didn't continue on up to peak from the onset of the hitting the curb"
-to me this gear is tough and handles sim ffb with total ease but I'd not setup aggressively & temp should still not be good enough to cook sausages so what's the point ?


gosh I nearly fell asleep typing that, back to drilling some holes in my f1 wheel, enjoying doing it

but much more importantly - either way IMO small or large mige with standard settings ......plenty of detail + power
ffb happy city ( small mige maybe best choice by a small margin for this setup as its the internal smaller lighter shaft mech to move arounds-doubt you'd notice though unless the intention is to add the power add-on when available then go large Mige )

dripper you've got me at this now

 

Thanks for the reply but it's not exactly a straight answer. Can you give me a yes or no answer that your source confirms those peak motor torques are with the exact same PSU please.

A closer look at the numbers you've provided and working backwards from them...

The Meanwell 600W 48V psu can output a peak of sine current of (600/48=) 12.5A pos = 8.84A rms.

Yet you say the small mige can do 20Nm at 2.2Nm/A = 9.09A rms = 12.85A pos (just a little over what that psu can do).

Then the large mige 19.973Nm at 1.57Nm/A = 12.72A rms = 18A pos

Notice how that the torque achievable you've quoted for the large mige current draw matches up perfectly with what the ioni pro can achieve but not what the Mean Well PSP-600-48 PSU can deliver?

So i'm sorry to ask but where/who are you getting your numbers from?

Again, if i've made a mistake in my calculations that's fine (as i just want to know the right answers) but have yet to see a proper reason for why the large mige can exceed the small mige in torque output for the same peak current.

 

+1 Dr.R1...

If the MiGe takes less power for the same Nm (or higher Nm for the same power), then why are the Small and Big both around 20 Nm give or take? Shouldn't it be (just a random example) something like 20 Nm for the Big and 26 Nm for the small? Or 14 Nm for the Big and 20 Nm for the small (don't quote me on those exact numbers, it's just an example to get the point across).

 

Spin, it's not necessarily the power draw but always the current draw that determines a motor's torque output.

Power = voltage x current, so you can see that you could have the same current (=same torque output from motor) but it's the amount of voltage in combination with current that determines how much power the motor is drawing from the psu. Why would the amount of voltage required vary (and thus the power draw vary) for the same current/torque output from the motor? Simply put....motor speed.

What determines the amount of voltage the motor requires to maintain the same current (i.e. same torque output from the motor) is how fast the motor is spinning. The higher the speed, the more voltage is required to achieve the same average current (i.e. same average torque output) from the motor.

The reason for this is that due to a phenomena of inductor circuits (i.e. electromagnets) that has the effect of increasing the average resistance of the stator coils as the AC frequency increase (which is proportional to the motor rotation speed). Voltage/Resistance = Current. So if resistance increases so too must the voltage supply be increased if we want to achieve the same current output (i.e. same torque output).

 

Didn't you say that the Big MiGe is less efficient and therefore needs more power driven to it in order to output the same torque as the Small MiGe? If so, if the setup is capable of driving the Small MiGe to only around 20 Nm then wouldn't that equal around 14 Nm with the Big MiGe? Yet both are achieving around 20 Nm which sounds like the opposite of what I thought I understood a few pages back...

 

The small mige is being over amped by a larger power supply not the meanwell.

http://www.antekinc.com/ps-8n50-800w-50v-power-supply/

 

Less efficient at converting current into torque as demonstrated by the lower torque coefficient rating (1.58Nm/A vs the small mige's 2.2Nm/A). So for the large mige to produce the same 10Nm as the small mige, it takes 40% more current.

-deleted- too lengthy.