[REL] Predator's Formula Promotion - NEW BUILD 1.28!

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by Slow Motion, Dec 1, 2016.

  1. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    just for your info, Steam subscription automatically downloads the templates into your "Templates" folder: ...\Steam\steamapps\common\rFactor 2\Templates

    So it can be easier to find them and maybe a day will see some personalized skin. Thank you
     
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  2. whitmore

    whitmore Registered

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    Thanks for sharing slow motion great work. Very inyeresting car to drive. Very curious why this car would have such light steering. Do they use electric power steering?
     
  3. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    Thank you.
    About the steering wheel I was surprised too and I asked to different persons for a confirmation. The answer was that the most depends of the geometry and the best setting for this car produce a light steering wheel.
    I could add that tracks were they usually race are very "compact", the top speed is about 170-175 km/h, no wings and we can say no aero... If I drive the mod at Varano, just for instance, the driving style must be totally different than a "normal" track and what I need by this car is a setting and a car itself that I feel in a different way.

    But info I received by people that manage the real car are only few and they never seemed very interested to have the mod, nor in using a simulator.

    If a day someone will present himself as a person with the knowledge and more technical data, interested into a better development and tuning of the mod, I'll be very happy to work again on the mod.
     
  4. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    I have been away, but just finally got a chance to drive these little beasts :)

    Very fun and unusual cars.

    The only obvious area of improvement that I can find is the sound. There is a hiccup in the engine rpms when winding up the engine. The engine sound is missing the nice deep sound from when the car starts (that should be in the background of the main engine sound all through the rev range). The engine sound is too quiet relative to the environment sounds (like birds chirping). The opponent engines are too loud relative to the player car. Most of these are just simple level changes.

    The light steering is interesting. I suspect that the real car would provide a bit more resistance when turning, even despite the odd suspension setup. This could be tested with a grippier tire. Perhaps the tire that is on the car is quite weak--more like an advanced road tire? Without changing anything else, a super slick should result in stronger FFB resistance through the corners. If the tire as-is is accurate, then so be it. But if a grippy tire does not induce the greater resistance, then the FFB itself may need tweaking.

    Like the Palatov, these little open cockpit cars are fantastic fun and much closer to a race car that any of us mere mortals would actually be able to drive in real life. Thanks for bringing us another entertaining and instructional driving and racing option for rF2!!!
     
  5. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    Thanks Marc.
    About sound, you are right but I didn't spend time on it, because the real sound of the car is almost different. "Year ago it was recorded, live, but with too many noises for being sampled correctly": this is the explanation I've got and no help at all, so on my side the sound can remain as it is.
    About the steering wheel I asked for a confirmation and, if no other real driver affirms the contrary, I can only believe it. For sure also the tires have a great impact... The real world tire can last for a whole season!! The car is very very light and the caster they use do not help to feel a stronger steering wheel.
    This is a car totally different by the most of the cars available in rFactor2, it is little, short, light, cheap... and it behaves differently by the most of the cars in rFactor2: maybe is not a bad thing.
     
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  6. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    We want it to be accurate. I am suggesting something more subtle about the steering:

    I believe that the steering itself could be very light compared to other race cars (just like the Indycar is known to be the heaviest compared to all current/modern race cars). It is the spread between the lightest and heaviest WITHIN the Predator's range that I am suggesting might need a small tweak. Since the car does not have power steering, the difference feels too narrow to me.

    Example: at whatever condition produces the maximum resistance on the wheel, the wheel feels too light compared to average or lower resistance conditions--compared within itself, not to other cars. Even if the car had no down force whatsover and odd suspension, just the tires alone would produce more of a range than I can feel. The Formula Trainer and Formula Vee in AMS are good examples of this. So is a go kart. It weighs next to nothing, even compared to a Predator, but the tires produce decent resistance in the wheel...which is magnified by the lack of traditional diff and axles, not reduced. So when you bind the kart in a turn (easy to do and presumably also easy in the Predator), you can feel it distinctly in your hands. I do not feel that with the Predator, even though the car is actually behaving properly (or seemingly so according to the descriptions) when you drive it--scampering through the corners :)
     
  7. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    Thanks Marc for debating about the car, but (and please do not misunderstand me!) I was thinking to do not release the mod, due to the "indifference" of the involved persons, like drivers of the car, team managers of the main teams in real life, Formula Promotion Organization... To be very clear, all these involved entities that should be interested and have something to gain in having a mod closed to the real car (for sure much more than rF2 users) that I contacted by email and by phone produced a lot of "I'm ready for helping, very interested, bla bla bla", but in the end I received very very few technical info and feedback.
    I understood the real drivers are only amateurs and they know nothing about the car, its setting, etc... the mechanics make their job without having detailed data: this is their world and a part of myself loves their point of view!
    And I can affirm that what I read at the beginning to be their "indifference", on the contrary can be read as a good way to take pleasure, without getting crazy with endless settings and what the technology asks.
    So, I think we can look at and enjoy the mod like a funny one, perfect for fighting without caring to much to the rest. And thanks to rF2, we have always the FFB multiplier... to be used at the opposite of the D4!
     
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  8. Marc Collins

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    Well, you can be proud to bring these interesting vehicles to us, even if the real organization is ignorant of the value that having a properly modelled car in rF2 brings. I also experienced this with an FIA-certified track that had no clue about the promotional value of having their terrific circuit in a consumer simulator. Oh well.

    But the relative effort issue I am referring to cannot be fixed by the multiplier. If someone wanted heavier steering, they could increase the multiplier. I do not want heavier steering across the board if you tell me the real cars are very light because that would not fix anything. I want the range from lightest to heaviest to be expanded a bit, that's all. It's like if the steering is so strong the FFB clips most of the time. You can reduce the multiplier, but then might lose the subtle forces. The band from lightest to heaviest is too narrow. This may be sacrilegious, but even if the data says everything is OK, I would still adjust it to make the car more enjoyable and natural/authentic to drive....like Reiza does with AMS cars. No one can really know or tell the difference, so make it pleasurable as long as the physics themselves are as accurate as they can be. Sticking slavishly to numbers leads to cars like the F2 and several other ISI poor executions. The Predator is not bad like that, it could just be a bit better and more enjoyable with slightly more plausible-feeling steering.
     
  9. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    Understood Marc, but I think there are so many variables... On my side it is really difficult, at first, to have same feeling than your feedback and then I should "discharge" anything that could alter the result.
    I mean... I suppose that any change to the device, like the FFB smooth / filter can provide a different feeling, as well as the device itself and I cannot "control" that.
    Just for talking in general, in the last months I "discovered" that a lot of users, that in the past never felt a FFB too much light, now are feeling it. It is not the case you are highlighting for the Predator's, but it could be related.
    I have no data for knowing how many users changed their devices, but it is sure that different devices and different settings in game for FFB, as well in their own drivers, bring to different feelings.
    In rFactor2, if you try to use all data that the code can manage to "write" a perfect steering wheel, is much more complex than rFactor1, at least for me! Together Chris "redapg" we developed a tool for helping in having a steering wheel in rF2 style at a good level, but nothing is perfect and our skills are limited, so we must live with what we are able to do.
     
  10. Marc Collins

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    That's fine. The FFB is obviously incredibly tricky. ISI/S397 has only managed to get it universally right on one car so far (the USF2000). Every other vehicle as one group of grumblers or another.
     
  11. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Addendum: I see that S397 is helping URD with the FFB on the new T5. Maybe Marcel would be willing to take a look at the Predator and Palatov, too? ;) It's the same issue of different hardware not responding in the same way, so even when something feels great here, it can feel bad there.
     
  12. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    updated build 1.1 DX11 READY and animated lollipop is available... first post.
     
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  13. Marc Collins

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    Steam is so irritating. I have no idea why this has not yet updated to v1.1. Your Formula BWM updated to v1.16 as expected. I am subscribed to both.

    But thanks for the continued attention to these fun cars!
     
  14. Nitrometh

    Nitrometh Registered

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    Thanks for the update. This cars are fun to drive. A bit like Formula Student cars :p
     
  15. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Just curious but did anyone ever try to get GTR2 pit animations and add them to rF2 to see if it works?
     
  16. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    Try to force the update verifying integrity of the files of rFactor2 properties in Steam launcher...
     
  17. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    It eventually did it now (two days later) with no special intervention. There are often huge delays in when things download versus when they are posted. At least for me.
     
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  18. Andrea Terzi

    Andrea Terzi Registered

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    Hi, I'm here to ask if it's possible to have the mod's excel to try to improve the feedback. Yesterday my friend Mattia Grigolon had a test day with pc08 and could give me advice on how to improve it. I'm not new in modding, so I would know what to do. Of course if you accept, credits would still be totally yours. I'm just here to help
     
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  19. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    Also this niche mod is on the way to be updated to latest level, as usual for all SMMG mods:
    - scratches damages
    - full rain effects also to helmet and driver (OW)
    - new rain drops effect to the visor (OW)
    - updated tire's realtime section

    WIP new "enhanced rain visor":
    20180920143851_1.jpg

    Due to the changes made by S397 to some shader we'll update the rain visor asap also in GP3 and PalatovD4.
     
  20. Slow Motion

    Slow Motion Registered

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    As you can read, I'm closed to release a new build...
    I didn't read your post because of never linked to me, but if you still want to be of help, please contact me by PM... and do not forget the PC08, also if same "size" of the PC10, has a different behavior due to the allocation of mass and different aero... mechanical grip is similar and another input by a real driver that also uses rFactor2 can be of help. Thank you.
     

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