Possible change in behavior of existing tires

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lgel, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Can someone confirm my feeling that existing tires behave now differently (temp wise and grip) with one of the last DX11 updates (for better).

    The car I used is the DW12, I find that front tires have more grip than before, and that setups I had designed to cure under steer from basic setup, now show higher rear axle temps. By observing tire distribution of temps across carcass for loaded tire in Motec I now observe a much better behavior.

    It's not an update of DW12, because I have repacked it with Boxer's excellent skins.

    Not sure at 100 % because I regularly erase motec logs, so could be my imagination.

    Thanks and Cheers.
     
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  2. Carr

    Carr Registered

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    A few from my community have also noticed a change in tires on a few vehicles after the DX11 updates. The UFS2000 and Radical are 2 that I have notices but can't remember the others people had mentioned. They appear to have a different temperature profiles than previously and punish lock-ups and spins more harshly.
     
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  3. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Thanks.
     
  4. Postipate

    Postipate Registered

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    Why wont you guys revert back to older build and test if this is true? Just use motec for data collecting
     
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  5. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Without telemetry, this claim (and similar ones) is just speculation. I agree on the suggestion.
     
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  6. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    The simplest and most logical thing would be for someone in S397 to tell us:

    - if there has been a change.
    - if so, what are the improvements?
     
  7. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    You are right. However, if the claimed change is real it hasn't ocurred this way.

    It is not easy historically to get clarifications from developers in this regard.

    We are still waiting for an official confirmation of Civic's medium tires to be bugged as an illustrative example.
     
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  8. Lenniepen

    Lenniepen Registered

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    The October-Roadmap had a piece about changes to physics in the latest build 1109 (which is independent of dx9/11).
    I'm not sure if mods/tyres need an update for this, or that the changes apply automatically to every car.
     
  9. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    When 1109 build was released with the GT3 power pack, it was stated that no physics changes had been introduced.

    Different updates from the same major build should be compatible by default since nobody is forced to use a specific subversion of that build.

    Someone that has a separate installation using an older update version of Build 1109 should be able to race in a server which is set with latest version of it.

    Hence, IMO the wording from the roadmap regarding changes in physics are still to come.

    If OP claimed behaviour results to be true, it would be a very dangerous bug, since it could yield to players using different physics in the same server, providing a cheating opportunity.
     
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  10. Lenniepen

    Lenniepen Registered

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    You may be correct, but the roadmap says: "So now, with the latest newly-released build, we now calculate localized accelerations, and our QSA model, becomes a little bit less “quasi-static” than before."
    Sounds to me like build 1109 has these changes to the physics.
     
  11. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    It is truly amazing that there is no communication on this subject (if it turns out that there has been a change or an improvement).

    An improvement of the physics (tire) is so an essential element of this simulation! I think that any improvement is very much expected by the community.

    So why not communicate on it (even just on the forum with a neat post)?

    Good communication is one of the keys to RF2, not enough communication is like bad communication, it hurts everything:

    Image of the product, image of the editor, frustration / incomprehension of these customers, miss opportunities .. ..
     
  12. Lenniepen

    Lenniepen Registered

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    There is a 500+word piece about this in the October Roadmap, with lines like:
    - "Our own physics developer and tyre guru Michael Borda took some time out to fill you in on the latest in tyre tech, notably, developments that translate into improving tyre feel and overall handling."
    - "In terms of overall feeling, this is the biggest change in rF2 since the introduction of the contact patch model."
    - "More details on this will be published soon as part of an upcoming physics blog, where Micheal will go more in depth on how to leverage these improvements"

    Not exactly 'no communication' right?;)
    I have to agree though that they could have been more clear about if (maybe leave the technical bit to the physics-blog, and use a less technical post in the roadmap)
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  13. Carr

    Carr Registered

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    There have been gradual changes to the rF2 tires over the last couple of years but there hasn't been any real documentation provided on what has changed or how to improve our own tires for modders, just a single line in the patch notes about changes to the tires.

    The release of the Radical was around the time that the new feeling tires started appearing from memory, perhaps Radical provided more detailed tire data that S397 were able to use to improve their process overall. Who knows.
     
  14. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    For what I understand, they changed how numbers are crunched, not the required numbers to crunch, so, I think this update affect at least ALL new CPM tires.
     
  15. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    You did not understand what I said.

    I'm not talking about the roadmap or global communication.

    I am talking about WHAT IS TREATED IN THIS THREAD: the fact that changes have apparently been made WITHOUT THAT IT WAS INFORMED.

    This message is clearer I hope.

    Moreover more generally, it is true that the communication / information / marketing are not of a very high level ...
     
  16. Lenniepen

    Lenniepen Registered

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    Ha, then I think you maybe misunderstood my post:)
    What I meant:
    • The GT3-pack came with a new build (October 17th): 1109, for both dx9/dx11 (https://www.studio-397.com/2017/10/gt3-power-pack-release/)
      • One of the notes in the changelog is:
        • "Added: Updates to the CPM model."
        • The is no specific mention of GT3 in this line (like with the new damage-shaders, which were only implemented for GT3), so this CPM-update is for rF2 in general (I may be wrong).
        • CPM = Contact Patch Model, which is part of the tyre-physics-model.
    • The October-Roadmap contained a large piece about a physics-update (https://www.studio-397.com/2017/10/roadmap-update-october-2017/)
      • "It is the biggest change in rF2 since the introduction of the contact patch model (=CPM)"
      • "So now, with the latest newly-released build..."
    Seems logical to me that these two pieces are about the same thing: CPM-update in latest build.
    So if TS noticed any changes in grip/temperatures (=tyre-physics) in the past few weeks, it is logical to think the recent CPM-update caused exactly this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
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  17. bhendrik

    bhendrik Registered

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    I have the same feeling as OP. Less understeer more ovesteer. The cars just turn in easier then before. Mostly play with URD GTE mod. I started to think it was my wheel settings, so i started to fiddle with the turning angles of my wheel. That didn’t do the trick, so i had the same thought. The front tyres have more grip, the back of the car is more sliding around under power. It feels like the TC settings not sending the full grip. But i think, after reading the last post on this forum it has to be the change in tyres. Not sure i like this changes though
     
  18. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Ok
    Ok thank's for giving informations that I didn't have/notice.
     
  19. stonec

    stonec Member

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    Thanks. It seems the whole community missed the "updates to the CPM model" line, as there was no discussion about it until the roadmap came out. But it's clear to me this update affects all tires of all existing cars (or at least all CPM cars), because the update was about the calculation which is done in code, not the tire itself.
     
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  20. Lenniepen

    Lenniepen Registered

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    At first I thought the CPM-line was about the GT3, that they implemented the latest technology is those cars, but when I saw this thread I made the link with that line.
    I also noticed some different tyre-behavior with the USF2000 (more wear, more punishment for lock-ups), but I thought it was track-related.

    It would have been more clear if the line in the changelog was:
    "updates to the contact patch model, which effects the tyre-physics of all cars released since the first CPM-release (<somewhere>-2015)
     

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