Possible change in behavior of existing tires

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lgel, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. WiZPER

    WiZPER Member

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    What's being referred to, is part of the developer +ttool, which generates the LookUpTable for .TGM tyres files. The tool is used to measure the tyre under certain conditions, and then compare those values to it's IRL counter part. So these changes ONLY affect newly 'rendered' tyres. Same physics are still used in both builds.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  2. I_Bellett

    I_Bellett Registered

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    It seems that the version of LookUpTable has changed from v1108(maybe).
    I think that only the tire with the new version of LookUpTable will benefit from the update in v1109.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  3. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Totally agree.
     
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  4. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Yes.
     
  5. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    I’ve certainly noticed a difference in the way tires come on from cold starting temps , makes 1st few laps of a race very interesting
     
  6. Tom Lebeuf

    Tom Lebeuf Registered

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    What exactly is "newly rendered tyres" though?
    New as in GT3 only? All cars released by S397? All cars that have the CPM? This is the clarity that isn't in the Roadmap that I think some are looking for.
     
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  7. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Clarify this take 3 minutes, that is important information (for me).
     
  8. WiZPER

    WiZPER Member

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    How can you doubt the meaning of NEW ? "All cars released by S397", clearly aren't newly rendered (new cars/tyres). This improvement was introduced along with the GT3 cars, it would be rather strange if they made several cars before it, not mentioning it, don't you think ?

    To quote the October Roadmap, with what I believe concludes this topic:

    "More details on this will be published soon as part of an upcoming physics blog, where Micheal will go more in depth on how to leverage these improvements."
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  9. Marcel Offermans

    Marcel Offermans Administrator Staff Member

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    You have to specifically design the tyres to make use of the new feature. At the moment, only the GT3 cars use it. The physics of all other cars is not affected. Michael, our tyre guru, is working on a blog.
     
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  10. Jokeri

    Jokeri Registered

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    You mean, one has to generate a new lookup table?
     
  11. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    You have to compile a new set of tires with new features/calculations in mind.
     
  12. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    so rf2 cars will never be on the same tyre model again? I love innovation don't get me wrong. but all the small amount of cars in rf2 need badly bringing up to par.
     
  13. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Explain please. But from what I understand from your text I can say that it doesn't make much sense. Because does it really make a difference to have cars with older and newer stuff inside? Of course the newest will always be head and shoulders in front of any other previous releases (maybe not head and shoulders but it is all about refinement. And so was this update, it was about finding out long lasting errors that prevented from tyres going forward with it's development and therefore accuracy of handling). The only thing that comes to my mind about it being a REALLY bad thing would be a multiclass race with touring cars, GT cars, lower forumula cars and some of them having properly done wet tires, some tires that correctly respond to temperature change of a track (currently WIP), etc etc. But if it's let's say a bunch of races and each being a different series and spec then I don't see a problem here. We all would like to have all cars up to latest spec but it takes a while. Trust me I know how long it is to even adjust sth small in a car and then find out that sth else now needs "fixing". CPM is a codename of a sort of approach to how we build the tires, an upgrade of old tire model, it's just going left on a left lane on a highway after going straight on right lane for a long time. The new code is there but YOU have the power of making the tires improve a little, a lot or make them so borked that they feel worse than old 2012-spec tires while them still being so-called CPM tires. It's all about building/compiling process. We are getting NEW cpm tires each time a new set for a new car is generated. Simple as that my friend.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  14. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Thank you for this reply ronnie (I didn't know that you are from S397).

    Nevertheless, for a simple user who does not know much about these technical fields, we it is difficult to imagine how fast all ISI / S397 cars will acquire these new technologies. Same for all other technologies to come.

    So that users know where we are, let me suggest a little table to update regularly:

    - Cars ISI / S397
    - Different physics technologies ---> check every time the car is equipped with technology.

    Quick, transparent, usefull.
     
  15. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    I'm not.
     
  16. WiZPER

    WiZPER Member

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    Admittedly, I must be SUPER naive, I would have thought that @Marcel Offermans reply cleared everything up, guess not - I give up :D

    Edit: RELIEF! Found the 'ignore' option, bye bye, dabadabadoo...
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
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  17. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    Explains my feelings as l have been driving the new GT3 cars pretty much exclusively of late.. the tyres feel very good !
     
  18. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    what I'm trying to say is, will we see the older cars and even s397s cars (gt500 USF etc) get these new better feeling tyres. Strange how everyone was moaning about the FFB wasn't as good as ISI cars yet now theyre a revelation.. confused?!
     
  19. stonec

    stonec Member

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    People mostly complain when FFB feels different even if it would be technically correct. Any car that has a light FFB like the AMG GT3 will see people complaining, even though they have no idea if it's technically correct or not. S397 even went as far as providing a fake caster upgrade for Formula 2 car to make people happy.
     
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  20. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    granted I wished for the caster update. That f2 felt broken on a t300, maybe not on a dd.

    however I do prefer consistency in a sim with the cars, although individually detailed, however in the same ball park in ffb. Ams has this down to perfection and even pc2 and ac. I was hoping that at least s397cars ffb were around this "ball park" feel to at least remain consistent with their work.

    s397 should abandon the idea of creating real world forces alone for rf2 as a majority of user run consumer wheels. If there was a real world forces setting then maybe. But as the ffb is derived from the physics of the tyre, I understand an amount of jiggery poker has to happen to make those fake consumer wheel ffb to feel right.
     

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