Next Gen Simulation

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by vegaguy5555, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    I am not a computer guy at all. I can only go on first hand experiences. When I was having the antivirus glitch last year in AC the guys walked me through all that and according to the numbers it was working 100%. As someone with decades of driving experience I know it was not anywhere close to 100%.

    There really needs to be a third party app to tests the whole set up because what the computer thinks it's doing and what is coming out my end of the wheel can be miles apart.

    The bottom line is, all these very well coded sims claim to use real data but they all feel so different!!

    Will the real sim please stand up??
     
  2. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Member

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    Not quite what I meant. I am definitely not speaking about a company specifically, whether it be s397 or whoever, but just in general terms of public software. By talent I mean a team of teams who are Subject Matter Experts (SME). In such a complicated and complex subject as motor vehicles, there would be very few people who are SMEs in tyres, suspension, aerodynamics, engines, etc. Even garnering a bunch of SMEs is difficult unless there are high rewards (such as salary $$$).

    Don't get me wrong. My opinion is that I think s397 are very good. I haven't dealt with anyone from the other competitors so I cannot say who I think may or may not be better. And then I can only have a valid opinion on what my subject of expertise is. I'm certainly in no position to judge who is an SME in suspension for example (I'm an aero guy).

    Public software has other challenges since it is not solely focused on physics accuracy. For instance, optimising the software for 100s of hardware combinations must take a fair share of available resources (people & time). Physics approximations are fine, and often the only viable solution. The average shmo won't know or care if the aerodynamics model doesn't work if the car yaws beyond 0° for example.

    It all comes back to the dollar since they are public companies and are businesses. The greatest physics model in the world with bad graphics, bad sound, prompt command menus and only works on 6 PC configurations is not going to attract many people. So investment in developing a physics model may fall some way down the priority list.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  3. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Member

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    I wrote this in another thread but it directly answers your questions:
     
  4. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    I think ISI was more committed to physics than s397. But my feeling is coming from been away for a long time and now i´m finding it easier to drive. And it seems that there are no more hardcore users, not being related to the company in anyform to make appropriate tests
     
  5. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    They just found a kinda major flaw in the tire model and fixed it.... added support for electric engines that will lead to hybrids at some point, rain graphic update was also meant as a pre rain physic update...
    Really bro...?
    Funny enough the tire flaw created a fake behavior, but since it's "harder" is real according to the so called hardcore simracers lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  6. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    So? Its my opinion based in personal feeling. As i said, i dont find any reliable user to do the tests plus i dont care about beta test team (or fanboys), without proper forum tag identifying, says about realism
     
  7. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    That sure explains a lot... :D
     
  8. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    Please, enlighten me with technical opinion of who already thought the best and realistic tire model on the market was made by iSI,and now a major flaw was founded, and now is realistic
     
  9. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    The guys at ISIS dedicate to other things.
     
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  10. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    Funny
     
  11. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    I consider myself a "hardcore simracer", without judgment or positive (no feeling of superiority compared to those who are not) or negative (as you seem unfairly consider these people).

    But to tell you that hardcore simracer would find that realistic/good because it's hard ?

    I have not seen anyone say this on the forum, and I am actively the forum for 6 months.

    Hard driving = bad hardcore simracer happy? (Lol)
     
  12. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    Its not about harder=realism.
    It is about people spreading in the past that the software provides correct data on car behavior in comparison to real life and then a "major flaw" got updated in the tires model and the software continues to give acurate data compared to actual physics after the update.
    So based, on personal opinion (its a feedback), I think the cars are easier to drive. Does this represent more reality? Do not know.
    Does that mean that accurate data in the past was wrong or is wrong now? Thats what I wanted to hear but not from people who are participating in a beta testing team or from a fanboy thats keep policing the opinion of anyone who thinks otherwise than "we got to the top and there's nowhere to go" = until the next major flaw is discovered

    All opinion (except what i mentioned) about how someone is feeling about updates and how the software behavesself, since most technical to the casual driver is good feedback. At least, it should be
     
  13. ebeninca

    ebeninca Registered

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    I think the next step is not on simulator physics anymore, but in acquiring a motion simulation plataform.
     
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  14. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    Ok. That's not how I understood the message from @Will Mazeo . Maybe the dam of the language ! I do not do so badly in English, but it remains difficult on some specific messages.

    On the other hand, I agree with you:

    A certain number of people consider as secondary at this moment the improvement of the realism of RF2 (are satisfied that thousands of hours/man were used for the graphic-visual aspects-ergonomics etc. to the prejudice ///// because it is in fact totally to the detriment ///// of the physics improvement / realroad, ... etc.), because they obviously consider that the overall realism is satisfactory.

    RF2 is the most realistic simulation, but remains obviously well below what it could be if the priorities of this "S397 year" had been different.

    Yes RF2 is open public simulation, no RF2 has not reached a level of overall realism satisfactory to me.

    A good example, the choice of S397 to have added very nice and almost invisible drops of rain on the AI, doing a lot of harm to PCs "medium":

    Why the hell did not have increased the realism of 25-45% of a race during which the road is wet ??? (aquaplanning / REAL puddles depending on the hollows of the road, which would have amplified the effects of aquaplanning etc [the scanned laser tracks for this would have been logical, it would have been a "virtuous circle".).

    It's better to sacrifice the simulation side in favor of beautiful graphics .......

    Moreover, many months before they spoke of the improved graphics of the rain, I'm pretty sure I saw a user explain on the forum (partly in the section "wish list") that RF2 was cruelly lacking realism in the rain (aquaplanning) ..... you have try 350 km/h in slick in the rain, including in the hollows of the road?

    Just unworthy of RF2, as if the road was wet only 5% of the time and it was negligible .......

    Well I have expanded what I wanted to say initially, but I would like S397 to listen to all these users, not just those who seem to be in the majority.

    If you think I do not respect the users who have other aspirations for RF2 (graphics etc.), you are mistaken.

    I would just like S397 to actively consider all users, and especially do not forget what is the DNA of ISI/RF2 :

    The most realistic simulation possible, accessible to almost everyone (performance optimization).

    S397 has such potential on the aspect of global realism ..... I hope that they will reinvest in what is inherent to a simulation, not neglecting the other aspects but considering them as secondary.

    Who wants a PC2 / AC bis ????

    @Christopher Elliott
    @Marcel Offermans
     
  15. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I think that your point regarding priorities is absolutely clear. You don't have to keep on bringing up the subject.

    IMO the biggest priority for Studio397 would be to make rF2 the reference simulator for professional simracing in emerging esports competitions.
    The partnership with Formula E and McLaren are very important milestones. Sadly F1 uses codemasters simcade. Alonso who recently created his esports team was talking in the interview after the race that one young driver from his team had won. When being asked about the simulator being used he said he hadn't tried it yet (very likely to avoid a sincere answer).

    IMO what rF2 should improve in order to be the reference is the competition related issues. Broadcasting, ingame penalty, effective anti cut...
     
  16. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    Quote from the development blog:"Once we had this corroborating information, it became obvious there was a glaring issue with our tyre model. Of course, this was an original part of the tyre model that hadn’t been touched for years, taken for granted. Furthermore, this was essentially a non-issue before the introduction of the contact patch model."

    Does this mean that the old tyre model aren't neccessarily less realistic than the cpm tyre model without the qsa update?
    Whether or not this is the case i will use this as an excuse to go back to driving the older cars.
     
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  17. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    I'd just be happy to be able to run rF2 in VR without the stutter and screen dropouts that happen consistently lap after lap :(
     
  18. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Nah there is no stutters with GTX 1080 Ti / i5 6600k if your system is setup as it should.
     
  19. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    What do i need to do to set it up to work correctly ?
    I don't have issues with anything else but would much prefer to have rF2 working perfectly and AC, R3E and pC2 stutter .
     
  20. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    rFactor2 is not as anything else and it is the best benchmark software there is and if system is not setup right you get horrible game experience like stutters etc ;)
     

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