Le Mans Ultimate

Binny said:
Coming soon they said
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Well, here's the problem. Any updates to rF2 could affect the client-side (such as, primarily, continuing to improve and fix the AI) or server-side. We know they have (had?) an alpha test of the Race Control system as a replacement for the existing Competition System (CS). But we've heard nothing about this for a very long time. If LMU is due to ship in December, then they ought to be testing the heck out of Race Control now, with as many users as they can muster. But they aren't. My speculation is, they are so far into "crunch" on LMU, that every single dev they have (coders, content) are working on getting the core LMU to work, and so they don't have time to be doing the same coding (enabling robust Race Control) in rF2 as well.

So here's what we're facing on the rF2 front. They have to get LMU released, and support it in its early life. They've talked about adding DLC as well, such as some historic cars and tracks, in future. My guess is, if LMU sales go well, they'll want to release that within 6 months or so to capitalize on it. That uses up the content team for a long time. Thus, I wouldn't expect to see updates to rF2 code/functionality until mid 2024, other than perhaps Race Control. My bet is LMU will be plagued with the same AI issues as rF2 has.

I've come around a bit to the idea of buying LMU. I don't see the content from that ever making it to rF2, or at least, not for a very long time. I'm kind of OK with that, now, where I wasn't before. rF2 can still survive without having LeMans/endurance sportscar content, but let's be clear, it'll be very much diminished when it does so. I think LMU may be able to ditch legacy code baggage from rF2, without the need to support all the old mods out there. I think this has been taking a lot of developer time and effort to figure out workarounds, to have that content still work in new versions of the software (think sound engine treatment of old samples mono/stereo, various graphical techniques especially lighting). While LMU is not rF3, it may be able to make faster headway without all of its technical debt and legacy code. rF2plus, if you like. And that may just be enough of a reason to buy it...

Having said which, my main simulator iRacing should be releasing rain in that same timeframe, and they already have the full set of GTP cars and I have my Fezza 296 also along with more up-to-date GT3 cars than rF2 has. That'll be a major overhaul of that, both graphics and physics/vehicle dynamics. Lots to learn and tweak on that, then.
 
burgesjl said:
Well, here's the problem. Any updates to rF2 could affect the client-side (such as, primarily, continuing to improve and fix the AI) or server-side. We know they have (had?) an alpha test of the Race Control system as a replacement for the existing Competition System (CS). But we've heard nothing about this for a very long time. If LMU is due to ship in December, then they ought to be testing the heck out of Race Control now, with as many users as they can muster. But they aren't. My speculation is, they are so far into "crunch" on LMU, that every single dev they have (coders, content) are working on getting the core LMU to work, and so they don't have time to be doing the same coding (enabling robust Race Control) in rF2 as well.

So here's what we're facing on the rF2 front. They have to get LMU released, and support it in its early life. They've talked about adding DLC as well, such as some historic cars and tracks, in future. My guess is, if LMU sales go well, they'll want to release that within 6 months or so to capitalize on it. That uses up the content team for a long time. Thus, I wouldn't expect to see updates to rF2 code/functionality until mid 2024, other than perhaps Race Control. My bet is LMU will be plagued with the same AI issues as rF2 has.

I've come around a bit to the idea of buying LMU. I don't see the content from that ever making it to rF2, or at least, not for a very long time. I'm kind of OK with that, now, where I wasn't before. rF2 can still survive without having LeMans/endurance sportscar content, but let's be clear, it'll be very much diminished when it does so. I think LMU may be able to ditch legacy code baggage from rF2, without the need to support all the old mods out there. I think this has been taking a lot of developer time and effort to figure out workarounds, to have that content still work in new versions of the software (think sound engine treatment of old samples mono/stereo, various graphical techniques especially lighting). While LMU is not rF3, it may be able to make faster headway without all of its technical debt and legacy code. rF2plus, if you like. And that may just be enough of a reason to buy it...

Having said which, my main simulator iRacing should be releasing rain in that same timeframe, and they already have the full set of GTP cars and I have my Fezza 296 also along with more up-to-date GT3 cars than rF2 has. That'll be a major overhaul of that, both graphics and physics/vehicle dynamics. Lots to learn and tweak on that, then.
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I might have a different perception than you but I don't see anything wrong with the rF2 AI that would be stopping LMU at this point. Bad AI never stopped people playing AC nor ACC. The most severe issue right now are funky talent files and that's it. The rest works as good or even better than in competing products without the need of ghosting. And given that they spend enough time really polishing the AIW lines and AI physics, wich would be much easier given the limited scale of the product, I don't see the big crunch that you are seeing. They don't need to worry about hundreds of tracks but about the stuff that will ship in December. And luckily, the AI works well on Bahrain, Monza, Spa and Le Mans allready. What they need to make easier is the online part and it seems that this is easier aswell due to the limited scale.

Anyway, it doesn't make much sense to speculate about what they will do or might do and it's even more irrelevant what iRacing does because they focus on IMSA - wich is kind of an issue from a commercial POV compared to WEC but that's a completely different topic. rF2 is in a perfectly usable state right now. But you can release as many updates and content as you want, rF2 will not get rid of it's reputation and never get the same traction as an official WEC sim. I guess in a few years time people might realize how good and unique rF2 really was (in it's current state) while we keep drowning in sims that are all same-ish. Why in gods name do I need a 963 in iRacing, AMS2, LMU and Rennsport while only two of the products really have a focus on content like that. Nowadays people want everything and it leads to none of the developers getting it right.
 
A two month slip on the "original" release date then.
Not the end of the world.

EDIT: I'd like to think that they have built in enough slippage so that this date is something they can realistically achieve. It wouldn't look too good to move it further into 2024 having given a definitive date.
 
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trichens said:
A two month slip on the "original" release date then.
Not the end of the world.

EDIT: I'd like to think that they have built in enough slippage so that this date is something they can realistically achieve. It wouldn't look too good to move it further into 2024 having given a definitive date.
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My personal opinion is that they haven't built anything for slippage at all. Hence the need to chop off expenses and throw what appears to be a hail Mary.
 
burgesjl said:
I think LMU may be able to ditch legacy code baggage from rF2, without the need to support all the old mods out there. I think this has been taking a lot of developer time and effort to figure out workarounds, to have that content still work in new versions of the software (think sound engine treatment of old samples mono/stereo, various graphical techniques especially lighting). While LMU is not rF3, it may be able to make faster headway without all of its technical debt and legacy code. rF2plus, if you like. And that may just be enough of a reason to buy it...
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I pray you are right, if not with all the goings on they might drop this rf2 engine & use another. The new CEO is use to releasing games every yr at code masters, bet he has some ideas of doing the same at MSG to boost the company financially.
 
3lfk1ng said:
There exists no better engine suited to the task.
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I agree but does the CEO and considering this is the 1st game /sim outside of rf2 to use the engine, i bet he has his fingers crossed if not he would have a plan in place.
 
Binny said:
I agree but does the CEO and considering this is the 1st game /sim outside of rf2 to use the engine, i bet he has his fingers crossed if not he would have a plan in place.
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If you start taking the rF2 bits out of the title, you will end up delaying the process far beyond 2 months.
 
mogwai said:
My personal opinion is that they haven't built anything for slippage at all. Hence the need to chop off expenses and throw what appears to be a hail Mary.
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I have to say I am excited to see if something comes along - the teaser / video does not show something really new concerning GFX, cars and tracks (ok, new liveries).

So if LMU will be released I am looking forward to see new BOP to the cars, maybe some new special FX in GFX, hopefully increased VR performance (sometimes track surfaces are still a little too bright and driving Nurburgring is still a challenge concerning performance), more information on options in the menu.

But the information given on the LMU website is somewhat general - it might be marketing not to give more detailed information but in the current situation I would say it is risky.
 
hitm4k3r said:
I might have a different perception than you but I don't see anything wrong with the rF2 AI that would be stopping LMU at this point. Bad AI never stopped people playing AC nor ACC. The most severe issue right now are funky talent files and that's it. The rest works as good or even better than in competing products without the need of ghosting.
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I dont think bad ai will stop the game from being published since most games have sloppy ai anyways. But i disagree that the current rf2 ai has only a severe issue with funky talent files, imo it has serious issues with passing and blue flags behaviour that impacts endurance racing significantly
 
Roninho said:
I dont think bad ai will stop the game from being published since most games have sloppy ai anyways. But i disagree that the current rf2 ai has only a severe issue with funky talent files, imo it has serious issues with passing and blue flags behaviour that impacts endurance racing significantly
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It is hard to say which features missing from rF2 will magically appear with LMU. rF2 AI on road circuits is not bad, without ovals to contend with I doubt AI will be a sticking point. Most of the rF2 issues from the past decade were dealt with in 2022/23. But extended repairs, 2nd & 3rd AI drivers, & 3 safety cars are just some of the items you would expect to see in an endurance sim that just are not there in rF2.
So we have to guess what areas they have been working on. I doubt you will see much different in the graphic area aside from perhaps finally a shadow fix. LMU is, after all, a cleaned up version of rF2. Don't expect wholesale changes, and don't expect the cars to be exact clones of the current rF2 offerings(I doubt the LMU Oreca 07 will drive exactly like the rF2 Oreca.)
 
Binny said:
I pray you are right, if not with all the goings on they might drop this rf2 engine & use another. The new CEO is use to releasing games every yr at code masters, bet he has some ideas of doing the same at MSG to boost the company financially.
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I fully agree.
 
GTClub_wajdi said:
Release date
20/02/2024
https://fb.watch/oapsVp1QlP/?mibextid=cr9u03
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6b163f9c23d2ffca7d8726d0e8f1f386.gif
 
Rui Santos said:
February delay is a shot in the foot in terms of marketing and sales, this doesn't look good...
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It depends. Ofcourse they won't be able to get the Christmas sales but if it helps to improve the initial quality and reviews then the additional development time - wich isn't that much - might be a worthy long time investment. Who knows.

And for the people who think that it'll be an annual release cycle: it's been explained several times that they are planning to expand the sim with DLCs over a longer period of time similar to how Kunos handled ACC. If they make it that far.
 
I hope it gets delayed as long as it takes for them to perfect the game.

As long as theyre still releasing it I still hope it will be an improvement on rf2 which imo would be a win for simracing.

All these posts on reddit and even here from people hoping it will fail.
Simracers are a weird fucking bunch, the only time ive seen this much tribalism was between the Hutus and Tutsis during the Rwandan genocide ffs.
 
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