Just curious. Why so much time in practice session in online races?

Very frustrated with online servers running so much practice time. Just curious as to why? Seems like 30-45 minutes of practice followed by a race where half of people crash out in first lap and then another g.d. practice session for another g.d. 30 minutes?

I was racing with some guys last night who did race after race with only warmup in between. God bless you guys!

 

I agree with that, it gets old playing a practice for over 45 minutes only to have everyone vote to restart a weekend.

It can be understandable with newcomers and first lap crashes, sometimes it just cannot be avoided. But that's what racing is about through and through..the positive loser learns more than the winner.

 

They do it so that people have time to join. Whether it is better than doing lots of short ones, I don't know.

 

Maybe it is so people can actually practice around other people and get themselves to a decent standard of driving...yknow, rather than come straight into a race, wipe out on T1 and then jump to a different server...

You could also try advancing the session with a vote. Seems to be fine by most people in my experiences.

 

Of course it sucks, like every aspect of public races..
People can practice just as well offline to prepare themselves for this or that car/track combo, those "race" shouldn't be about 60min "practice" (during which half of players sit in garage and go watch TV or whatever anyway) and 5min races but you can't explain that to most people.

I find it funny how so many people say that online racing is always more fun than offline, wholeheartedly disagree with that, I find most AI races are more fun and feel more realistic than racing 14 yr idiots who destroy other cars because they're faster.
There are exceptions to that too I'm sure, like I heard good fun is on Durge's server, some servers like that did exist in rF1 too but they were a tiny minority.

Only leagues make sense but I would rarely have time exactly when the league wants to race so I spend 90% time offline..

 

Go and practice at Mid Ohio or Toban with AI. They make it hell, slow in all the corners, far too fast on the straights. Then they start to swerve at you when you get close to overtake. The only way to race with them is to be out in front, and then that is no different to just hotlapping in practice.

It's also not just learning the track, but actually trying to experience and follow some form of racecraft. If someone is going into a public/open non league server, then they should expect there to be a bit of crap. The one thing I've got from online is being consistent, especially when up against real fast guys.
Yeah, most of the LRP Skippy races I did online were not a challenge (douche alert XD). Left me just either pissing around alone up front for the race, or having a laugh with the other guys, and not really racing. No need to learn how to drive close to my limit for lap after lap.

In terms of leagues, the FLR server is usually up for about 1 1/2 weeks before one of the events. We then get the racers and "regulars" from all over the world practicing whenever it suits them. I've usually found someone on their whenever I go for practice. Plus come race day, the people who are signed up seem to show up...even though it may be 11pm their time...XD
s***, the FLR race today with Lance was intense, and seemed to be "realistic" if thats how you are judging it. 1.6 seconds behind at the end of 60 laps. The only unrealistic bit was forgetting my pit request button...coz I'm pretty sure I'd have a radio in real life...hahaha



BUT you should go and do what makes you happy. So if you love running single player, DO EEET. Hell, all my simming until rF2 has been single player...cheers Simbin...XD

 

It's important to note though that I know fairly well how to set AI through AIW files and vehicle files of cars themselves so they behave fairly well, but only in rF1. So there's no need to tell me to try Mid Ohio or Toban with AI; I myself can give you thousands of car/track combos in any sim where AI is completely useless and not fun at all.

But, if the track has very well made AI waypoints, and just the right params in all files concerning AI, they can be pretty good, but it also depends on the overall physics and tyre model and finding the right damage/aggression ratio. It's not easy to get good AI, but possible.

When everything's right, AI can teach you consistence even better than humans IMO simply because AI doesn't think about anything; they don't get nervous or scared and just lap with mechanical accuracy so they can run 10 consecutive laps all within 0.5sec for example.

I think what AI can't teach you that well is the actual speed because yeah, in some specific corners all AI cars go too slow no matter how hard work the modder puts into it all, generally I noticed the slower corner = the slower AI goes, in contrast in some ultra fast corners they can be too good.


Which is another thing I love so much about rF1, I can tweak ANYTHING within a second and see the result, then when I want to switch to online play I just put the original files back and not get any mismatches.
Many rF1 mods don't care about AI behavior at all and use totally ridiculous numbers, probably were made for online only. I can often change that, not so easily in rF2.

 

There is nothing to stopping you from "racing' in practice sessions.
Pit out behind a fast driver and try to keep him in sight.
Or get 3 or more to pit out together.

Nothing worse then you have been in practice for a hour near a PB and someone
comes in and votes to race every 5 minutes without turning a lap.

Varies on how many laps people do in a hour, if you put your head
down you will end up having good close runs , hour will disappear
before you realize.

Rather leave a longer session and let people decide what they want to do and when.

It is good idea for everyone in open rooms to make it known to others they are ready to race whenever.

Even then you vote and start a race and one guy has put the garbage out at the most inopportune time. hehehe

The bigger the open room compounds the problems but I would not give it up for a minute.

 

That wouldn't work for me, over the last year I grew the mindset that I need to feel everything is "right" and real, I would find no motivation to race 2 guys in a practice session, I couldn't force myself to think it's an actual race, then again to some people racing a bunch AIs will always feel even more artifical but we're all different and have different points of view.
Also in practice it doesn't matter if you crash so it's nothing like a race, I like doing longer races with AI and often find myself doing a big mistake towards the end, and when I don't do mistake it's satisfying, while just doing 1 or 2 good practice lap isn't satisfying to me.

 

Thats not how consistency is "learnt" in my books. Consistency for me would be learnt through having to do a long race with some quasi "danger" as it were. For example which ever server you are in, there will probably be a bit of competition between similar skill players. Add to that an actual championship with points, and there is technically something to be lost with a poor finish or DNF.
To run off track once could be enough to lose the race, and you can't go back and restart, being a championship round.

I suppose that is understandable. Still, I would have the idea of being able to restart the race hanging round my mind.
Racing in practice makes sense though, even if it's racing against my own times. Probably the only perfect lap I have ever seen is Greg Murphy at Bathurst a few years ago. Even then he said he mucked up a bit of it. There is always something to chase...I unno
If the event has a rather long qualifying session I will keep pushing for a faster lap, and my race times will be a bit slower. Yet again, you don't want to go off in the actual race so you try to not push crazy hard.
Each to his own I guess. Bet it would be more satisying to win a long race with no mistakes vs human players though...

Plus the part in bold btw...racing in singleplayer with AI...you can restart the race...hence why that removes some of that "quasi danger" in my view Like running with 0% damage, it'll be in the back of your mind that if you do happen to clip a wall, you will come out ok, short of a spin losing you time.

While demanding a setup from the fastest driver...within 10s of joining...to then be told the fastest driver is using the default setup, resulting in an immidiate quit from the server...

Sometimes ya just gotta put the laps in XD

 

That's still hotlapping though, not racing, as racing is not about the fastest lap. If I want to do as fast single run as possible, I choose a hillclimb track, which is raced with 1 car on track in real life as well.

Somehow I don't have the idea of being able to restart the race hanging round my mind. If I screw up, I quit the sim and go do something else, or try different series/track . I don't restart the race offline 10 times just because I can.

Of course! But saying long race and public race in one sentence is a big joke - it just never happens. Only possible in leagues and we're back at my problem, I can't for example race every monday at 9pm I have too changing free time, sometimes I go to bed at 10pm, sometimes I go to bed at 7am. Ideal would be a quasi league which does many races in 1 week and where you don't have to participate in most of them because there is no championship, need to find some like that.

edit: and no, I don't mean only staying up on friday nights drinking lol. I have totally irregular regime for whole week (don't care they say its unhealthy).

 

What would help is some indication in the lobby - how long practice is set for, how long it has to go; and more difficult, whether the server is going to go to race at some point. My point of view has always been that I can practice offline anytime, online is when I get the unique chance to race against other people (and aliens).

 

On Saturday nights I run a bunch of races. 60 mins practice, ten minutes of racing, ten minutes warmup (so people can join, use toilets, test setup changes, that sort of thing) and then on to the next race ... one long practice to start and then no more. Works pretty well for pickup sprints.

Friday nights I run a single 1-hour timed race with practice and Q before it, but that's in rf1.

 

You really need to get involved with a league if you want to race.
As rf2 is still so new and buggy, there will be hardly any leagues running rf2 for a while. If you want to race, go back and try rf1. Still plenty of races happening.
You will never get a good race on public servers. Once we go gold there will be no shortage of league races and you will be kicking yourself you didnt practice harder now. When the big boys come out to play for championships, you will realise you have alot to learn. So many noobs. Not enough time to help them all.
Once you join a league, you will get rivalries with other drivers at the same pace as you and you get to fight them race after race after race. You will find alot of help from all the guys too. Trust me, you'll need it. You will be practising like mad in the 1 or 2 weeks between races just to get yourself ready. It will no longer be game to you, it will be a sim and you can kiss your spare time goodbye. Do you think when Alonso gets in the simulator he goes looking for races (I know, just an analogy) or tries to find some more pace?
The boys get VERY serious when theres championship points on the line.
Be patient grasshopper.

 

More often than not, the servers that I setup for the site I belong to are set using long practice sessions and then either 1 long race or 2 sprints.

The reasons for having a long practice session is so that everyone has a chance to join the server when it is convenient and practice to adjust their driving and setup for the race that will follow. We usually recommend that folks practice to learn the track and car online as there are differences between online and offline when it comes to brake points, car handling and dealing with lag.

Our drivers have no problems voting to the race when everyone is ready, though we also have a set time that the race will start so that everyone knows when it will happen if the practice lasts that long. We also don't set up public servers so that we know everyone that is on the server and can expect a certain level of performance and courtesy from everyone on the track.

With real life people that know a little bit about racecraft the online experience can be a lot more rewarding and "real" than being offline with AI regardless of how you setup the AI file. First off real people are not going to run a perfect mechanical lap every single lap. They are going to make mistakes like real life race drivers do on occasion. Also, real people are going to attack and defend better than AI regardless of the AI setup. Being on Teamspeak also makes a bit of a difference as you can talk to each and every driver during practice to learn stuff, share stuff or just have a bit of fun before the race. During the race and qualy sessions we usually restrict Teamspeak to important stuff only, like pit entry or accident information.

What it all comes down to for online racing is the community you are part of. If you are not a member of a community and depend solely on open servers, your experience will likely be poor most of the time. If you are a member of a community, your online experience will likely be good to great most of the time.

 

Alot more time should be spent in practice than racing, it's nice to practice with other people

 

With arcade racing, you can do very little practice and race all the time. With little or no damage, limited number of tracks in most arcade games and no or limited setup options, it's fun to pick up and drive those games. But in sims, there are several very important differences that make racing every day almost impossible (unless you do the same race daily!)

Sims have damage (most servers anyway) and the damage is significant. Arcade racers don't have the same sort of damage and in those races there is a lot of contact and requires less racecraft. If there's a lot of contact in a sim, you are not in for a good race. Learning racecraft is a skill that takes many years to develop and it's hard to be patient. It takes hours to work up a track/car combo. Setting up a car in a sim takes time. It takes laps and it takes input from others. Setting up an arcade car normally means starting the game LOL.

So the hours that are put into a good sim race make daily sim racing (as in good competitive races) impossible. It's fun to do a pick up race online, but it's not the same. The results of those races are either- you and some regular friends have a fun race and it's more of a social event than a real race. OR it's a pubby, you don't know most (if any) of the others and it's a wreckfest.

If I get in 1 good race a week I am very happy. For a good race I'll put in 4-8 hours practice. To me this is mandatory because I owe that much to the others I race with. If I show up to a race and one guy is begging for a setup during quali, another says in chat "I have a 6 pack in me- I'm ready to race!" I know this race will suck. Been there, done that. At that point now I know enough to hit ESC and tell the guys SEE YA!

And when you are prepared for a race, when the others are prepared and all of us are roughly equal in pace, we all know each other and the lights turn green- it'll be the best gaming (not just racing- but any gaming) experience you ever had. 2 of my best races were 2nd place finishes because me and the 3rd place guy battled lap after lap. And when you win one of those races- knowing that YOUR 8 hours of prep bore fruit over 10 other guys' 8 hours of prep- there are very few gaming experiences that are as rewarding.

 

We set for long prakky but come race time we do 5 minute P then straight to race all night, makes for a "fun" night out and we do like our "Fun" in this Fun little game.

 

I would say that I find very important with so many new mods and tracks to have long practices in this period... It is needed to let me get in control of the new car... IE the new Lola mod... I need lot of practice on new tracks... With skippy I would now rather only race... I find very frustrating though when, after one hour or practice, you get another hour of qualy and then 5 min race… Race should be at least 10 laps, IMHO.
Then, to have better racing and better time usage, I would possibly introduce 10 lap limit in qualy and exclude the drivers with very slow pace from race.
What makes me really nervous though is all the kids swearing to each other after an accident. Online public servers are open to everyone, live with it or race offline/leagues.... like to say, if you don't like this movie, use your remote.

 

Would be nice if the lobby showed a count down for race start and length of race , yes I want to do some practice first but it's helpful to now if I will have time to do the race .