This is indeed one of the things we can do ourselves and possibly needs improving. I've seen drivers really struggling with rf2 and when talking to them I found out they are still driving rf2 as if it was rf1. and getting frustrated when things aren't working out (mainly new physics, tires, temps, realroad) In that respect I think allot of server admins are still stuck in rf1 mode as well, locking the server because, well, that's what you do. But do we really need to do that anymore? Mismatches are gone. no more endless coaching people to get the right content. rf2 is harsher on silly driving (i.e. forcing drivers to actually drive as they are supposed to) So that mainly leaves the wreckers and sad people to have to worry about. But closing a server to rule out those people will probably not balance out the entry of possible new regulars or members. And most if not all Leagues are always on the look out for new members. Especially now where rf1 vs rf2 is actually hurting communities as members become less dedicated in this period of changeover. For any game or sim, a server is the number1 tool for recruitment, always have been, always will be. So why are we still running locked servers? why aren't we inviting new drivers and make our community stronger with it? Even opening the server on specific days per week and have admins around to monitor things could make a big difference. members practising together online on their public server will instantly draw in others, especially now so why not take advantage of this? And I can tell you from experience, helping someone out whom is struggling one way or another makes for pretty loyal members in the long term On that same note, it might be a good thing for ISI to try and make adminning a server a tad more user friendly. Its expected that admins need to invest time and effort innit but do they really have to got through stuff like this to get things working? (bless you Noel) If you look at Ddigital's post one can only imagine how a new user would feel when trying to setup a server or start a community, even more items that need to be investigated by browsing the web and hoping for solutions or helpful tweaks. It can become pretty disheartening. Even more so when just wanting a quick host. And i'm not sure if its build 300 or not, but whenever I try to join servers 6 out of 10 getmods fail completely. granted I don't join servers much but it seems to happen more often(?) And imo it would be too easy to just claim admins are being stupid and need to educate themselves. if i'm correct in this then it could also indicate its just too complex to do it right in a reasonable timeframe.
I understand your point. And due the huge amount of tweaking parameters the intensiv development process and non ISI content from low to fantastic quality it requires more time and knowledge to get out the best of rF2. But exactly this points are some of the main reasons for me why I like rF2. I call it ISI style. IMHO they made a real good job. I'm not sure if in case of "all is super easy" the community would be so activ and strong? But for me the community is a important part of rF2 which extends my expirence in many ways. It's a pretty tough thing for all (ISI and community) to manage the balance between "easy to use" and "best race simulation out there". I'm a IT system engineer for HA server solutions due this It is possible that my view is not the common one
On the internet any view is not a common one I think you're right in saying it does not have to be fool-proof. its a simulation, so at least on-track and in-garage we are required to take it serious and give it effort. instant-success like with arcade games is just not going to work, nor should we want that. And in terms of upgrading the sim from rf1 to 2 I certainly expected and was presented with an even bigger challenge. job well done I say. So much so it might leave the casual drivers whom could get away with rf1 a bit behind. dunno if that is an issue though, more part of the game. But apart from some sim-issues the program itself could be more easy to use for sure. There are loads of things that can put people off of which I think are not necessary and I have to be honest, I gave up on finding out why something doesn't work, I just leave it and get on with it. Granted, rf is open source and we are continuously demanding more and better options in all departments, so we cannot expect things working out of the box or not expect to have to dive into files and tweak stuff. But still, imo there are still too many things unfinished and unpolished for ISI to claim its ready. and this might be one of the reasons rf2 has not yet been fully embraced, especially for those whom are on the fence and return to rf2 on occasion as apposed to those whom are fully informed already. I've been here since day one, with a few breaks, and I still get lost sometimes within the program, easily forget things as some items are not logical and often find myself wondering what's going on or how it could be fixed, from a program pov but also as a driver and admin. Community is indeed very important, in fact its the only component I am personally interested in, if I can't race with peeps, members and mates online I simply don't race.
I can understand you really good. All you have listed I can confirm And I'm the last one who is against improvements but unfortunately this is not my decision that is ISI's part. Due this circumstances in my opinion all I can do is to support anything that improve the online activity. We want exactly the same and offline racing I do only if had to learn a track or test a car but (very rarely I do one or two races ) without online racing there would be no reason for me to do races offline. All of our points would be a improvement and a step in direction more online activity. Thanks for explain your point of view. I hope ISI has an eye on this thread and it helps them to choose the right decisions.
Indeed. Must be a daunting task though to make the right decisions in every department, or even have the opportunity to get out of it what they would want. No idea how challenging it is for them but sure enough for such a small team it is quite the task, combine that with everything we are demanding all the time.....you guys are lucky ISI didn't hire me to do Tims job lol. I would have lost it long time ago Which is why i'm always trying limit the negativism that can creep up every once in a while, its unproductive anyways but i'm also very aware I have no idea on why/what/how/when so most of it would be assuming too much imo.
Disagree. Exactly THIS should work!! HAVE TO work (dive into files and tweak stuff)!!! You are not a modder are you?? What I expect is exactly this: Go easely into files and tweak! That´s what it´s all about, isn´t it? Greets Pete
I'm not a modder no, and certainly am not speaking in that sense. I was more referring to acceptable/necessary file tweaking in terms of setting how rf handles a last lap, how it counts laps, mph vs kph, how to add a skin, server commands, vmods, wheel settings, etc etc etc. Basic stuff that is or can get annoying when you wont know what to look for -we are still answering questions about rf1 for that matter- but imo just part of the kind of platform we are using. And then there are the more unnecessary or avoidable items that should indeed work more or less without having to search for solutions. As for issues modders are facing, no idea, well I do see them talk about it, but I don't have anything to add about that simply because I have no clue about that area But open source programs do come with their own issues and it does require allot more from its users then closed source platforms like iracing.
There was a place like you described for the original rFactor. It was called rFactor Central. Due to the popularity of rFactor and therefore bandwidth issues it was a huge money sink for the guy running it but he accepted donations and ran it for many years before finally selling it to a company who will not be named. As for an in game store, while a great idea, I'd assume ISI would open itself up to liability issues if modders were using trademarked material without permission and they'd rather not spend time policing things like that.
I've seen drivers really struggling with rf2 and when talking to them I found out they are still driving rf2 as if it was rf1. and getting frustrated when things aren't working out (mainly new physics, tires, temps, realroad) A few of us said this was going to happen a lot will find they have to learn to drive again. its great breaking hard not caring about tires in RF1 and come to RF2 and start all over again and say its to hard, no its saying sim racing is moving in the right direction. we are all going to struggle with some parts of RF2 but its a great challenge, i am enjoying it so much been here since open beta. Cannot wait for other features to be finished and introduced.
Hi Pete! I'm not a modder but as often as I can I'm try to point out how important tools and manuals for modders are. Some of the best content (IMHO) is coming from the modding scene. Yesterday I played with the in build300 released pTool. I hope ISI will extend the the features and functions of this tool for Devmod. I think this is absolut the right direction. Also I've read the manuals and had done succesfull the test examples for pTool and ttool. Unfurtunately it changes nothing on the fact that I've no clue about the nature of physics and forces I know there is a lot of other stuff to manage and no common tools are available. I hope ISI will extend the devmod and the devtools step by step. ImHO ISI has released with build 300 many communitiy wishes.
Yap! The more complex the calculations and the model is the more tools we need! Man would it be frustrating if there weren´t all these tools for rF1.... Greets Pete
I've been holding my tongue a bit but there are a couple of thoughts I would like to share: I do not believe it is healthy to have extreme levels of angst over imperfections in a sim racing title. Anyone who entangles their sense of contentment with ANYTHING they have no control over is doomed to be disappointed in life. A healthier attitude is to be grateful for what we have, which is pretty darn amazing. Also, there is more to life than sim racing. Anything ISI or anyone else does to make the individual offline or collective online experience is obviously welcome. My personal experience with rF2 has been greatly enhanced after the following: - Specializing in a single car and focusing on my driving and on one track at a time. Improvements in my driving have begun to reveal the true depth of rF2 physics and driving experience. Instead of craving new content, I crave more practice time and can't wait to return to a track for the next event so I can find additional tenths. Simply incredible and also something I never expected to experience. - Rather than the center of my happiness, I now view rF2 as something of an "operating system" or just another tool in a set of tools that simply enables the true center of sim racing.......the league. Yes, there is a lot left to do. Yes, it will never be perfect. But if you accept what it is and are patient, it can be a very positive part of your life. If it is not meeting your needs now, then go spend some time in the gym or with your girlfriend or (gasp) contributing to society until it is ready for you.
Some interesting discussion in here. In my view the graphics are the fundamental problem and the reason that it really CAN'T be marketed effectively at the moment. There are people in the online racing community doing their best to market it themselves but look at what they have to work with. Steve Taylor is trying to make re-cap videos of Race2Play events, and those are the things that often get people to join in. Here's his latest: No shadows at distance, a generally "muddy" appearance that's only partly due to video compression, and the overall lack of fidelity in the car's motion all work to undermine what is an incredible racing sim. Compare it to just a random Game Stock Car video of an online race (start viewing around 18:45, for instance): The images say it all. Hopefully the devs know by now that I'm a huge proponent of this sim. It's really all I've been racing for the past year and I'm always trying to recruit people to it, but sex appeal matters. People don't just love racing and cars because of how they drive. Even I want gorgeous, high-fidelity replays that show off the beauty of motor racing, and I honestly think that for all but the hardest of the hardcore, not having that is a non-starter. I don't think it has to look as good as PCARS or AC, but it needs to look at least as good as rF1.
^ Good post, agree with it all. I think everyone does if they are being honest. Even the "all about physics" guys. Visuals are another layer of immersion. Vitally important if you ask me.
no advantage without disadvantage or vice versa I try to explain it with an example of my working life. Company A develops a product and during the development they made a announcement of the product and upcoming features with a detailed roadmap. Because the product is innovative and powerful customers want it. Company B notice the announcement of company A and begins immediately with the development of an comparable product and made also the announcement with some additional features. They say it will be ready a little later but for that better. 6 Years later the product from A and B is now in the 3rd generation company C (which is a supplier of company A and B) notice how slow the progress for the implementing of new standards is and made a announcement of an comparable product without all the disadvantages from Company A and B. All sell more or less successful their product because A (successful) was the first and has saved market shares and hold the patent. For B it was not so successful due problems with the design of an core element but B has many regular customers. So they had no real choice if they want not loose them to A. For C it was a success story because they have developed 6 years later. They have not to take care about compatibility to older parts or versions and after 6 years the most issues are known so they had solved or worked around them. In my opinion it is almost impossible to develop a perfect product and maintain this standard because mostly there is a other company with an comparable product plus some extra goodies But despite this drawback, A was more successful than B because they were the first on the market therefore had more time to sell and most of the first gen. devices are compatible with parts from the third gen. That is for me a very important point and a very difficult part for a product developer. Advantage of this position is the customer can continue use most parts of the existing periphery and environment can continue the earned and learned knowledge and existing third party products and gen1. can interact with gen3. Many Parts of the developers infrastructure can be used over a long period and the product is stable and can be customized in many ways. It is a disadvantage due the many internal and external relations because this relations made a implementing of new technologies difficult or maybe impossible. Hard to decide what is more important. Someday Company A decided to develop a new product and now the roles are redistributed. Company C will come to the same point as A has been and they had to make their decisions. Company A is now in the role Company C was before and a new product lifecycle begins. Company B still has no choice joke This is only one aspect of many. Look at AC the have shifted the release date due some administrative problems with the online selling process and their government. All can happen and many will be happen. I want all best physics best gfx engine best support ... but unfortunately no advantage without disadvantage or vice versa If a racing sim with focus to simulation will be released I'll try/buy it right away. But I do not believe I get the perfect product and I'm sure I will miss this and that. Every product has his own advantages and depending on what I want in this situation I will take my decision. I try to see it not black or white. More like today my eyes want see a beautiful car and track so I start xy and on the next day my brain says I want drive cars with real good physics the I start yx and so on. I'm 100% sure each ISI employ know how important and "great to have a gfx engine with candy output" is for us. A important thing would be solved, but Considering possible existing known and unknown dependencies the same time it created so many new tasks and loses perhaps in other areas of functionality or compatibility. So I think this it is a very complex and difficult decision process . But I want it all and now sorry for the long post
Howdy, Living in the South Western US of A, I have a simular problem. Had it in rF1 too and it eventually caused me to remove it from my computer altogether. The facts are that racing, expecially road racing, is far more popular in Europe and Australia than it is in the US. So... I imagine that, that is where the money goes or will go to promote the game. I'm hoping for a better turnout this time around with rF2 once it is finalized and released to the masses. But I'm not holding my breath. I do have my own server (F3 Fanatics!) and it helps. At least I don't have to drive Meganes or Clios. That's what I did in rF1 just to find someone to race... I won't this time around. Kids. I'm sure this info isn't really helpful or gives you or anyone reason to smile. Or, maybe it's time to see what the roundy round games are offering up for road racing mods. The NACAR series of games seemed to have more people online during times more user friendly for us US drivers. But, I don't really know about that either... It's been since NASCAR 2004 that I've messed around with anything to do with a game that starts by being a "roundy round" game. Bryan
I don't think ISI can turn that around Bryan. Rf1 had plenty of content for US orientated racing so it was there, yet you still removed rf1 because it didn't suit your needs and/or was not picked up by the US masses. ISI could create content, a few ovals and cars. but would that make a big difference? (and who knows how much Nascar charges for licencing? could be as simple as that) And the biggest hurdle is indeed the different regions and their timezones. We have a few Americans in our League but they are there because roadracing and are racing at weird times lol. that requires dedication. Same for Australia, we ran a V8 championship with all the right tracks and where kinda hoping to get some Australian peeps to join in (even though they would be kicking our butts no doubt) but it never happened, apart from an occasional join in practise, simply because of the times. But there where allot of Australian leagues dedicated to 'their' content. why not so much in the US? But one thing is for sure imo, joining megane servers because 'what else is there' is selling yourself short and perhaps also selling rf short. there are leagues but also other type of communities with less 'dedication' required. plenty of options for the serious racer. And using public servers will never really make the sim or the competition aspects shine like it should shine.
At some point in the near future sim racing will become my primary life activity, with all other endeavours existing solely to sustain my sim racing.
