Has RF2 reached a level of sophisitcation above 99 % of it's users?

Dan, the one thing I notice from all your posts, is that you are very consistent...
Consistently being inconsistent that is

Forgive the wordplay but think of it seriously for a moment. Every time you fire up one or the other, you come away with a different opinion.
Either, it's your mind that's inconsistent, or your equipment. If you really care, spend the time to isolate that issue you just tried to explain. Is something wrong with your setup?

For the Tech demo comments. It is exactly what you want to see. If it's too early for you to play, there is heaps to occupy your time.
I see it like a pile of lego, or meccano. It's a pile of parts in a pretty box where I can learn, build and fight...

Just like lego and meccano, I'm only limited by my own imagination.
Some people follow the instructions and build what's on the box, some make their own creations.

Go and play cops and robbers with Durge or do a drag night with some mates at longford.
Pretend your Prost trying to get around Senna at Brazil.
Complete a 2 hour race.
Make a skin.
See how long you can stay on two wheels.
Have a reverse race.
Play chicken.

Hang out with some mates and make your own fun!

 

maybe its me thats taking sim racing all too seriously... i mean so many sims to choose from eac with their own weaknesses. maybe confusion.... maybe expecations to high.. maybe whats going in my life right now. (isnt good).

Tuttie is right i should refrain from posting.

 

Honestly, as you, I also do not really care about what you think since your posts are very contradictory and passive aggressive. Point is since day 1 we have just a single rule over here, easy to understand; constructive criticism is ok, passive moaning it is not.

 

A "tech demo"... come on, please.
And the software being too sophisticated for 99 percent of the users?
This is one strange thread.

If you want less sophisticated and more shallow software, there are plenty of other sim to choose from.

You have every imaginable option at your disposal in rF2, but who's forcing you to learn and use every single one of them all at once?
Just focus on what interests you and leave the rest, until you one decide you want to learn some other stuff.

rF2 works perfectly even just running it default. You can then enhance just about every aspect of the sim to your liking by diving in deeper.
No need to get overwhelmed by it. Just do what you like, ask the questions you need to ask, educate yourself and get on with it.

I can only speak on my own behalf here, but I wouldn't in a million years have expected rF2 to be less sophisticated than it actually is.
I bought it two years ago with an expectation and a gut feeling that it was the most advanced sim available.

 

When i was deciding what sim to by rF2's less fancy craphics and lack of game features was a selling point for me, because it showed that resources are used to right things. I was and still am interested only to what the sim is like to drive and how accurate it is to real life.

Some people are less interested in driving itself and other things matter more to them, so they probably choose something else than rf2.

And some people forms an opinion about a sim based on what it looks like from the surface, thinking like it looks good and is advertised to be good so it must be good. For me that mostly means money spent in to wrong things. On the other hand, that could mean also that there is big budget for the sim. In that case it could be good, look good and be advertised at the same time. Haven't happened yet though.

Also want to say that rf2's sometimes clunky surface seems to make some people suspicious about the goodness of it's other things like physics.

 

rFactor 2 is the most complete, moddable simracing platform for simulating race weekends, with the best driving physics and AI. It is far from a techdemo. It just doesn't have a flashy presentation.

It's also very accessible due to its driving aids. You can even play it properly with just a keyboard. http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/22387-rFactor-2-s-keyboard-steering-support

 

Dear hexa,

Please read the original post and don't try to make it say what it doesn't.

In this post am I asking that RF2 should be less sophisticated?
Am I complaining of the complexity of RF2?
No, not at all, when I want a black car I use to say I want a black car.
When I was not satisfied on how the lighting in RF2 worked I wrote it clearly, and why.

You are in the happy 1% not overwhelmed I stated, I am glad for you, let me ask you a few questions.

How many hours a week do you devote to your hobby? Be honest.

A new contact patch has been released, every one raves about it.

Has someone started a thread based on facts to say if it works as intended and how?

I ask you hexa, does it work as intended?

Where you able to setup a DW12, and adjust suspension geometry based on tire temps readings?

Where tire temps logical on both axles?

Is it normal that tire pressure takes 10 laps to stabilize?

Depending on initial pressure of tires do tires pressure stabilize sooner?

What useful feedback has received ISI from the forum that goes any further than vague "feels great" or use it as a rethorical weapon against other sims?

Many cars have physics wrong in many aspects (engines not reaching their recomended temp, brakes not reaching their optimum temp even at minimum settings of refrigeration, suspension that can't cope with the aero load, etc.), how many users notice and report?

When I asked in General Discussion if someone could confirm that AI tried to block when lapped (blue flags) with previous build 946 in the general discussion, 616 viewers, and no one could or would answer. It may have interested ISI to know we care about it.

That is why I wrote this post, I have the impression RF2 is too much for a majority of their users (me included, and I take it as a challenge).

Cheers.

 

issues like the above do make me question rf2 "authenticity"

CPM=PLacebo maybe?! who knows.

 

Just be aware that it's a made up number for dramatic effect. Is what he means is and probably would have been taken more seriously if he posted "it's too complicated for me".


Has anybody ever stopped to think that the reason why they are seeing more threads is because more people now own rF2? More owners equals more complainers.

 

^Lgel: True, factual based observations aren't readily available. I always remember the Motec trace comparison done by that F3 race team. Seeing how real life matches to rF1. Great stuff and it certainly showed a bit. But bloody hard to undertake.

It's probably that people don't have enough time to be able to do that, or the time they do have is spent enjoying their sim time. Unless that really give you jollies, who wants to come home from work and spend hours "working" more. I know I would rather lose myself in a race, chuck some laps down. Not break into the numbers and open up game files snooping for the proper facts.
I'd have to put my hand up, I haven't done major comparisons between new and old. I have noticed that my temp graphs are much more even now though. No long having frozen cold outer edges. Could be I'm in those 99% of users. All I can go off are the experiences I have while driving.

So what I have to do is trust that ISI know their stuff. They know what they want to achieve with the model and how it stacks up against their data. Over the years, their work has been solid, and they always have appeared to always to try and get their "physics" as sussed as possible. It's a dodgy thing to do, but it different from person to person. Some people could never do that, and that is fine. They want to know for themselves and be sure of it.
Then again, others will do the same for different products, iRacing and their years spent perfecting their models and their oval focus with their steady platform, Kunos and the feel they get out of the cars while implementing what the majority of the users want.

I'm expecting comments along the lines of "blind faith", but my experiences and what I look for in a sim are fulfilled here and I don't ever get signs to mistrust that feeling. If the next build comes out and track grip has been boosted, or there are now NOS pickups around the track, yeah...

I also know that things will only be "finished" when rF3 is announced, so of course I'd not say "lets leave things as they are now". This new model certainly behaves better than the old one, plus the startings of better wet weather support. There's always room to improve and keep pushing.

 

Dan, how are there only a handful of tracks worth driving on? Seriously??...

Thanks to DurgeDriven's wonderful F3 Rookies server, I spent months almost exclusively driving ISI's classic Monza (two configs), Monaco, and Spa (and in just one car, mind you - the Eve F3). That's 4 tracks right there. Add Longford and the long; "classic style" Tiger Moth config, and you got 6 awesome "classic" tracks right there. Then add every single ISI track released and every config, then a ton of 3rd party tracks, and you've got tons of great tracks.

I think I spent a week just driving the ISI Clio @ Lime Rock and Mills; that's around 9 or so tracks right there. Even if some of the track configs aren't too different (e.g. Lime Rock w/ only 1 chicane) and you therefore want to consider those as half a track, then you can still consider Lime Rock and Mills to be at-least 4 tracks.

I can understand how some people think the "presentation"/U.I. of RF2 is a little tedious (e.g. too many options still in text files) but to say that there are only a "handful" of tracks worth driving on? Come on, Dan, that's absolutely not true.


P.S. Don't even get me started on kart tracks

 

Mmm, who knows, right?


So these are issues with the model ATM? Hope it's in the bug section for the devs to spot. They probably only care for that section of the forum XD

Proper proof can go in a few directions though. While I have no idea about DW12, as I don't race one or work in a team, I have to come back to that "trust" in the team. They got the data they were missing, the files are encrypted IIRC for that reason. Blind faith, it doesn't matter to me, I can't actually prove anything from my deskchair in New Zealand. I can crack laps out and look at the garage stuff, maybe motec and provide that as feedback, and leave it at that.

If you can prove an issue, you bloody well better stick a massive flag up and hope they see it! They would want to know that, who wouldn't.

 

So he's saying CPM is BS and ISI just says they're working on the tire without actually working on it? Wow, thread is getting into strange territory now.

 

I believe the current CPM to already be an improvement. Apart from that, I'm pretty sure the CPM isn't complete and finalized (didnt ISI mention something along these lines?) let alone the entire tyre model as a whole which, by the way, is already the best in the biz in my opinion.

 

Yes, I'm pretty sure ISI has said the tire isn't finalised.

 

Yes another opinion, not a single fact to support it.
What aspects are finalized?
What is missing at the moment in your experience?
Cheers.

 

It has to cut both ways, give your facts about what is wrong with it. You can't make a thread where it is discussed how 99% of users are unable to grasp/realise/know what the sim is doing and how its doing it without evidence of your own. I'm very intrigued by the pressure and temp stuff you mentioned, proof would be awesome to see, and would be invaluable for ISI.


/devilsadvocate lol...

 

flipside...

id like someone explain what CPM is doing that the old model isn't?!

Im not sure ive seen one person answer that. (my question on another thread with loads of views and not one answer>!)

im sure most of you dont even know.....


So yes Rf2 is too sophisticated for its users. lol

 

Me too as well as motivating me to throw myself very deeply into study of vehicle dynamics and driving techniques. Wasn't long before I could make it do whatever I wanted. Recommend at least setting front and rear ARB to be equal and then the fun really begins...

 

I already mentioned my "observations", but I know that it's based on what I've seen and noticed in the sim, not done on a tyre dyno, outputting numbers to crunch and compare. My whole point of this is that none of us have proper proof of anything. Just our opinions and our views on what we think should be happening.

I have noticed that the camber actually plays a role in tyre temps now. You could run stupid low cambers previously and you would have good grip, and the outer edge of the tyre would still stay quite cold compared to the middle and inner. Made for some pretty unreal setups.
I have also noticed better temp changes as they tyre gets loaded up. Especially under braking where I have seen the tyre build up heat, this is without skidding or scrubbing the tyres, just loading and unloading them. I would assume the inner temps are changing much more with the belts flexing, but I'm not sure how to read that info. That's just assumption

Can't prove it to you with numbers though. And so we roll on.