Guide: Optimal FFB settings for rFactor 2 - The key to being in the "Zone" :D

It's a pity, just a single line of any professionals could save a lot of time.

 

Is why i meant more the software professionals which could explain the simulation.

 

Probably but I do not think it is too complicated, there is simply no interest in my opinion.

 

Hello

Someone has good setting for T300RS please ?

thanks in advance

 

Sorry to pull up an old thread, but I'm having some issues editing the .json file- each time I edit it I get an error message which says it is not a valid json file

Any ideas? I loved rfactor, and I really want to love rfactor 2, but it feels horrible to me at the moment, have no feeling of when the back end is stepping out whatsoever.

Or maybe I just suck haha

 

Hi,

New to the forums so bare with me. First off, this thread was awesome to read, thanks for the tutorials and insight! I have followed DrR1pper's tutorial on how to get it just perfect and when driving on the track it feels fantastic, the bumps are there, the force is great, everything is as amazing, however... when I hit a rumble strip or go off road... all hell breaks loose!!!! My wheel goes nuts! It starts clipping and can't keep my hands on it anymore... I've tried tweaking the .json config file of the specific profile I'm using thinking it might solve the problem but for me it never worked. I've loaded the file time and time again and it has no effect what-so-ever. Here are the settings I'm currently using:

Fanatec Wheel settings:
Sen: off
FF: 100
SHo: 100
AbS: off
LIn: off
dEA: off
drI: off
For: 80
SPr: 0
dPr: 0

.json of my custom profile:
"Force Feedback":{

"Jolt magnitude":0.1,
"Jolt magnitude#":"How strong jolts from other cars (or walls) are. Suggested Range: -2.0 to 2.0.",
"Off-road multiplier":0.1,
"Off-road multiplier#":"Temporary test variable to reduce force feedback strength off-road (0.0 = zero FFB, 1.0 = full FFB)",
"Other spring coefficient":0.2,
"Other spring coefficient#":"Static spring effect rate (-1.0 to 1.0) for any other FFB-capable controllers",
"Other spring saturation":0.8,
"Other spring saturation#":"Static spring effect peak force (0.0 to 1.0) for any other FFB-capable controllers",
"Rumble strip magnitude":0.05,
"Rumble strip magnitude#":"How strong the canned rumble strip rumble is. Range 0.0 to 1.0, 0.0 disables effect.",
"Rumble strip pull factor":1.2,
"Rumble strip pull factor#":"How strongly wheel pulls right\/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested range: -1.5 to 1.5.",
"Rumble strip update thresh":0.2,
"Rumble strip update thresh#":"Amount of change required to update rumble strip effect (0.0 - 1.0)",
"Rumble strip wave type":0,
"Rumble strip wave type#":"Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.",
"Skip updates":0,
"Skip updates#":"Apparently some drivers can't handle a quick FFB update rate, so use this hack to skip the given number of updates (0=full update rate, 1=half, 2=one-third, 3=one-quarter, etc.)",
"Steering effects strength":10000,
"Steering effects strength#":"-10000 to +10000, applies to all steering effects (torque, resistance, static spring, jolt, etc.)",
"Steering resistance coefficient":0.1,
"Steering resistance coefficient#":"Coefficient to use for steering resistance. Range: -1.0 to 1.0",
"Steering resistance saturation":0.1,
"Steering resistance saturation#":"Saturation value to use for steering resistance. Range: 0 - 1.0",
"Steering resistance type":0,
"Steering resistance type#":"0=use damping, 1=use friction",
"Steering spring coefficient":0,
"Steering spring coefficient#":"Static spring effect rate (-1.0 to 1.0)",
"Steering spring saturation":0.1,
"Steering spring saturation#":"Static spring effect peak force (0.0 to 1.0)",
"Steering torque capability":7.0,
"Steering torque capability#":"The maximum torque capability of the wheel (in Nm, obviously)",
"Steering torque extrap blend":0,
"Steering torque extrap blend#":"Higher blends of extrapolated value allows driver to feel torque changes even when actual torque exceeds 'input max' (0.0=disables, 1.0=max)",
"Steering torque extrap time":0.015,
"Steering torque extrap time#":"Time in seconds to extrapolate steering torque based on current change (Range: 0.001 to 0.050. To disable, set 'blend' to 0.0)",
"Steering torque filter":1,
"Steering torque filter#":"Number of old samples to use to filter torque from vehicle's steering column (0-32, note that higher values increase effective latency)",
"Steering torque minimum":0.039,
"Steering torque minimum#":"Minimum torque to apply in either direction to overcome steering wheel's 'FFB deadzone' caused by friction",
"Steering torque per-vehicle mult":1,
"Steering torque per-vehicle mult#":"Per-vehicle steering column torque multiplier (this is a copy of the .CCH value)",
"Steering torque sensitivity":1,
"Steering torque sensitivity#":"Sensitivity curve applied to representable torques: 0.0=low 1.0=linear 2.0=high",
"Steering torque zero-speed mult":0.3,
"Steering torque zero-speed mult#":"Multiplier at zero speed to reduce unwanted oscillation from strong static aligning torque",
"Test workaround":false,
"Test workaround#":"Workaround for apparent driver CTD on release",
"Type":1,
"Type#":"Type of force feedback: 0=off 1=wheel 2=joystick 3=rumble\/gamepad 4=custom"

I can't drive properly without knowing that I can safely hit a bloody strip or momentarily go off-road for a sec!

Please help... no idea what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks!!

-Sebastian

 

Hi Hype_Z and welcome to the forums

I don't actually know what settings you would need to change to resolve your problem but i'm sure someone will post you a possible solution soon. I haven't really experimented with any other settings regarding ffb other than those i prescribe in the guide.

Side-note however, it's been quite a while since i owned my CSR-Elite wheel but if i recall correctly, applying the "FOR" setting on the wheel rim to anything but Off or 100 will result in a clipping effect. Or i could be wrong and mistaking it for the "FFB" setting on the wheel rim, I can't quite remember.

Either way, just becareful of that and maybe do a little test with the wheelcheck.exe program to confirm (if you're not sure).

Here was the effect on ffb output of the wheel with a range of values for (either) the "FFB" or "FOR" value on the wheel rim itself (and the results applied to both the CSR-E and the CSW V1):




I do wonder though that if you do have this problem, whether that could be contributing to your issue or not.

 

Thanks for the quick reply! I ran a test with it at 100 and it simply got a bit stronger, clipping still present. I'll definitely give it wheelcheck,exe a shot to see exactly what it's up to. I wonder if it has happened to anyone with a V2...

 

Well that's certainly a possibility considering it's brand new wheel to the market and you're basically the first person to use a V2 in rf2 (or at least first person known to use it in rf2 from the forum).

Can you actually describe the problem in a bit more detail and if possible, a video would be helpful if you can record one.

 

Ok so I've managed to test the wheel with wheelcheck.exe. Tried it at For = 100 and For = 80 and it showed no clipping (see below)

View attachment 15337

I've also tried to record the movements in a little video. The first 40 seconds is me setting it up (loading the profile of the car and checking the wheel settings). The off-road jolts are manageable now for all cars, but the jolt when hitting a kerb is still pretty violent. Its almost like the line in the .json where i set the off-road multiplier to 0.0 worked but the jolt magnitude one isn't doing anything. I try letting go of the wheel at 1:30 but throughout the video with the formula car I hang on and you can see my hands shaking when hitting kerbs. With the NSX its a bit of a different story... its not the rumble strips that cause a problem (at least not all of them wierdly enough) its when the car gets on or off of them (or any other object for that matter) - the initial jolt when the suspension gets compressed. An excellent example is when I slide off the track, hit the grass (first violent jolt as the suspension goes through the decompresses-compress cycle) and then another violent jolt when I pass over a paved pathway or any solid object or when coming back on the track.

My dilemma lies with the fact that the cars have excellent FFB under normal track conditions and it really feels good but when it comes to bumps and jolts its just too much...

-Seb

 

Hmmm...I honestly don't see any issues at all in those videos, as a matter of fact, the FFB looks really weak and dead/inactive in my opinion. It almost looks like you're playing with FFB disabled, and can steer the car with just a few fingers if you wanted to.

P.S. I thought the jolt magnitude was for when another car hits you, or if you hit a wall or something - not curbs and "normal" driving situations??

 

Then I might be confused, about the meaning of the jolt.

For the NSX yes you can drive it with just a few fingers as you would a normal car under normal circumstances. The Formulas though... not so sure... my hands are shaking pretty badly and the force is pretty strong (or I am very weak hard to convey the strength of FFB in a video I guess. When driving the NSX the thing may look dead but it somehow manages to convey the finer details of the track. The load becomes heavier when entering a corner at high speeds quite nicely and feels very natural, I never found myself fighting the car during track days or auto-cross and although passing on kerbs makes the wheel shake I never lost control, hence why I'm still alive to this very day The NSX just feels right except for the odd spike here and there.

So if its not the jolt setting (I'll try hitting walls tomorrow at different settings ... it comes quite naturally to me while simracing) and not the rumble strips ... it would be a setting defining the shock felt by the suspension while compressing too fast...

-Seb

 

Ok, so i did some reading of a written review and it seems this issue of the ffb "going nuts" over rumble strips (for example) is an unavoidable side-effect of the CSW V2 and it's not a design flaw. Supposedly, due to the newly included servo controller in the wheelbase, the motor response has been significantly improved, so much so that the wheel will spin up from stationary much quicker (i.e. closer to instantaneous start-up) than the V1, and the same goes for coming to a stop (and everything in between of course). As a result, you supposedly can't stop the wheel from oscillating like you once could do by gripping the wheel tighter when going over curbs (etc). The wheel will oscillate with much greater response by ramping up the force output from the motor in response to any drag/friction in the system (such as when you grip the steering rim which increases the moment of inertia of the wheel) and then modulating the motor torque as needed as the wheel rotates which means changes in wheel direction should be much stronger, sharper, punchier and accurate (hence the experience you are having with having violent ffb response over curbs....which might i add is most probably very normal in real life).

I recall watching Shaun Cole doing a review of the CSW v2 a while back mention the fact that he had to let go of the wheel when/if crashing into a wall because the ffb was too violent and he demonstrated it in the review and my impressions were that he was heavily exaggerating (not helped by the way he showed himself having to let go of the wheel....looked/felt very pre-meditated @ 9m42s in).

But then, the written review seems to confirm Shaun's impressions/observations: http://www.simology.co/entry/3-whee...port-wheel-base-v2-one-wheel-to-rule-them-all

Now, i also don't think it's possible to turn down the strength of the curbs (for example but i could be wrong) because the ffb effect from them is not baked in i believe. The resultant ffb effects are a direct consequence from the physics of the tyres being displaced very quickly (especially at speed) when driving onto or off the rather thick curbs and the resultant violent changes in force through the steering rack as the front wheels drive over them. Naturally, this would be felt very violently through the steering wheel and in non V2 wheels you would feel less of an impulse as the motor more gradually built up torque but with the new V2 the forces are built up much quicker thanks to the inclusion of a utilised servo controller. I could be wrong, there could be a coefficient in one of the files that can control ffb strength when driving over the curbs (and grass) but if there is, i'm not aware of it. Perhaps someone else can chip in here?

So it would seem that the problem you are describing is actually an unavoidably side-effect (at least in a sims like rf2 due to the non-baked in nature of it's ffb) caused by the significant hardware improvements made to the wheel CSW. Without the servo controller, you would get less violent ffb over curbs but you would then loose the improvements in ffb responsiveness and accuracy.

I must confess, after reading all this, i'm quite interested in trying the CSW v2 for myself now.

 

Comparing the NSX to modern day open wheelers will make this violent ffb effect of your CSW v2 when driving over curbs much obvious because of the suspension difference between the two vehicles. The road car (especially the NSX i believe) will absorb the force from the step displacement of the tyres onto the curbs far better than the solid suspension of the modern day open wheelers.

I think what makes this issue all the more worse is the fact that the ffb will go from relatively week to suddenly very violent when driving from the road surface to the curb (and/or grass). So you'll be driving with relatively low grip of the wheel rim to suddenly having to death grip the wheel rim which makes the effect of the curbs appear more extremely violent. Where-as in real-life, driving on the road at speed, you'd have significantly higher grip of the wheel rim do to real-life forces, so much so that when/if you drive over curbs although it will still be violent you wouldn't be as shocked by it being so violent because a) it's real-life and b) you're already always in a high wheel rim gripping state.

 

Hello,

I remember watching that review before buying the V2 I just didn't remember that part and yes, turning the wheel when not powered is very easy, there is almost no noticeable friction, that combined with the motor that can deliver up to 7 N-m and the fast response are probably what were causing my "issue". And the more I drive the more I feel its exactly what you have described:

Problem is, I've driven over and fallen off some pretty high kerbs and the wheel on my car never rattles that intensely (or am I being to caught up in the moment to notice?) ... it is the whole car that shakes. I'm pretty sure there are other videos to better illustrate this but look at around 6:00 mins or 7:10 or 8:30 (or any 1:15 min after that ) when I happen to hit the left kerb of the track at around 100 km/h, the shake of the wheel is never extreme. It probably varies with the height of the curb... I will try different tracks

[video]https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10151646273766826&l=7193049577845068890[/video]

My communication skills must have failed me at some point I wasn't comparing the two cars, I was just sampling both the FFB of a regular road car which I can relate too and that of an open-wheeler.

You can bring the force on the wheel to be higher during normal "on-track" use of the Formula Cars, if you are really looking for a workout but when you eventually hit a curb... maybe its just the rattle coming from my frame and the wheel that puts me off... or the fact that I think it will explode. But if neither fail anytime soon (or within the warranty period) I'm going to be happy

The fear of crashing and burning probably adds to that effect

I do feel a lot better knowing that rF2 is doing such a wonderful job at replicating forces on the tire and the suspension and that its not a "flaw" on my base! Maybe its all too new and I have to get used to it.

Thanks for all the help! Greatly appreciated

 

Probably you would like to increase the smoothing value, this will dampen it.

 

Hmm, not sure but is your cars suspension stiffened to road or race spec? If road, that should absorb a lot of the displacement and minimise the additional force affects on steering rack, right? Does your car have power steering? Also, the curb in each of those moments looked very progressive from track to max curb height and the max curb height didn't look that tall to me. Lastly, i wonder if even at 100 km/h in a somewhat gentle left hand bend/corner in each of those moments whether that was enough to significantly unload the left suspension which would reduce the additional forces on the steering rack from the tyre-curb displacement.

It must be down to the inclusion of a utilised servo controller. Quite interesting idea if i've understood it's implementation correctly. Instead of a feedback controller for a position output target, it's being used for a force output target to get the quickest response (without overshoot) possible.

Mock-up diagram of it's hypothetical effect (again, if it does in fact work like this):



The grey line represents a stepwise (i.e. instantaneous) change in steering wheel torque of a car with very stiff suspension and having a very sudden and great change in tyre deflection (e.g. high speed onto a sharp and tall curb).

This force represents a 60% of the maximum ffb wheel force output and so without the servo controller, the wheel produces a constant 60% ffb force which naturally takes some amount of time to reach the corresponding steering wheel acceleration/velocity/position rate of a 60% ffb force. The resultant effect is a delay (i.e. ffb lag) and dampening/smoothening of the especially the higher frequency forces (because if the ffb reverses direction before the wheel attains 60% then you won't have properly/completely felt that ffb/physics detail producing that 60% ffb force).

With the servo controller, to get to a 60% force output rate of steering wheel acceleration/velocity/position rate as quickly as possible, the servo uses it's max (i.e. 100%) force output possible initially. This builds up the torque more quickly it then starts to tapper it down to stabilize at 60% (and crucially without overshoot) as it approaches the correct steering wheel acceleration/velocity/position rate that corresponds with a constant 60% ffb force. The result is quicker ffb response and increased ffb clarity of ffb details.

Does that sound about right with your experiences?

 

The suspension is mid-way between race and street. You are right about the dampened effects of a street suspension. So a street suspension will lean more and and unload faster even in gentle corner therefore the shock will be transferred with greater force to the steering rack.

One other thing i noticed is that the road effects can be felt more than in the sim. Im talking about the vibrations in the steering column directly, not the shaking of the chassis or other components (talking strictly wheel feel).
That servo-controller solution to improving FFB lag is really cool. It also doesn't apply to all situations right? Sometimes the force is not transmitted as sharp as in the case of hitting a curb. To be honest I feel no lag, the wheel FFB seems to go from 0 to MAX instantaneously.

I tightened the wheel, tightened all the bolts on my frame and even if the response is strong, it feels a lot better. Maybe there is a psychological factor to it now, knowing that its normal.

 

hmm, my first intuition is that the softer suspension would yield less apprent force to the steering rack. Perhaps i'm wrong, plus i never tamper with setup in game (which i will do from now on when back in rf2) so i really only have guesses to the possible outcome of certain changes.

Yep, to be expected, as good as the v2 is it'll still have some limitations from being for example non direct drive (not to take away from how good it is based on consistency of reviews of the power of the wheel, smoothness, responsiveness, etc). Just that real-life is naturally going to be more on all of those fronts ofc. Even a DD wheel has limitations though because of how the feedback loop between sims to ffb wheel works (gonna post more on that tomorrow).

It is if it's true. I'm not sure if it is the case, that was just my prediction of how i think it must be working (could be completely wrong). I think it should apply to all situations but not dependent on the state of the physics in the sim. My guess is that it'll work more like a servo feedback loop for force/torque target error handling rather than position error handling that true servo's are designed for. Speaking of which, I'm going to post something about this and to do with leo bodnar tomorrow.

That observation sounds like it might be confirming my thoughts on how the servo controller they've added works then. But it's hard to tell, could equally be something else entirely being responsible for the perceived improvement.

Yes, beware the placebo effect. But i don't think that's the case here, too many people confirming the same thing.

 

Ayyyooo, just wanted to say thanks for this thread and all the testing you did DrR1pper to find the best values for the t500RS. I finally picked one up and have been using the suggested values (60% overall etc), and adjusted the minimum force as high as possible without oscillation to remove the deadzone. It feels AMAZING. I am coming from a lowly G27 so the difference is much more than I was expecting, even after reading all of this thread. It feels like my actual track car half the time! So thanks for all the help. I had a racing buddy over tonight and we ran some laps on the virtual version of a track we run in real life quite often (putnam park), and keep in mind he's never really used a sim, he picked up his pace almost immediately and commented on how well you can feel the car loading and unloading through the wheel. Good fun! I also made the mistake of picking up fanatec clubsport pedals, thinking if I bought new I would avoid all the nightmare quality control issues I've read about...yeahhh, nope.

Brand new pedals, within two hours of light use a solder joint on the sensitivity adjustment potentiometer stopped working and now I can no longer achieve full brake input even when standing on the pedal, unless I manually hold/ziptie the wire leading to the solder joint in just the right angle so it makes contact. Fanatec support has also so far thought I'm crazy, won't send me a new potentiometer + potentiometer lead until I find a camera to make them a video of the issue and prove it's not the load cell etc. The pedals also came with several main bolts (side frame bolts, pedal face bolts etc) very loose and it almost rattled apart upon first use. The gas and the clutch have also immediately developed a severe loud squeak that took some dry lubricant to fix. A bunch of tweaks I don't mind performing on a set of $90 chinese pedals, but after I pay $250 for a set using a 99 cent load cell sensor, a 20 cent potentiometer for adjustment (priced on digikey), etc? Yeah, wasn't expecting that. Anyway, sorry for the rant! Needed to get that out of my system, it sucks because when they're working the pedals feel great. But the difference in quality between this USED t500 and these brand new fanatecs has been quite uh.....apparent.