Released GT3 Update and (v1) BOP

It's just that it's wrong, not that it's not there, that they don't do it, but that it's so exaggerated that it's wrong,In the video it is clearly seen that it downloads much faster than the simulator does
 
BedlamSquare said:
There are now confirmed cases in this thread where people have discovered that the 'problem' was being caused by an incorrectly calibrated deadzone on their throttle pedal. I said it last night and I'll say again, before reporting this as a problem, first check that your equipment is working correctly.

There's a post earlier in this thread with a picture of the gearshift 'logic' table for a real car ( I think it's a Cup Porsche). It states, in words, that the throttle pedal MUST be at 0% for a downshift. The Throttle Position Sensor will lag slightly, so that has to be below 20%. That car, IN REAL LIFE won't allow a downshift with the throttle pedal pressed. I don't know if all cars are like that, probably not, but it's certainly correct for SOME of them. Just because you can do it in some other sim does NOT mean it's accurate. Let's just assume for the time being that the developers do actually know what they are doing, and that they have access to cars and professional drivers.

Let's also remember that this update is less than one day old, and the developers have openly stated that there is more BOP and setup work to do. If we give them constructive feedback, that will be far more useful than raging that 'it's BS'.

It might also help the developers to fine-tune the cars if they knew what equipment was in use. If you are having a problem, are you using a keyboard, a controller, a Logitec wheel and pedal set, or a ten grand, full-motion sim rig? Also, comparing with a video tells you nothing - you don't know how rapidly the car is decelerating and the on-screen information lags behind the pictures. As I said last night, with my rig I can downshift just as fast as the video of the Ferrari. I have autoblip ON and auto-lift OFF.

There's an interesting point - the description for Auto-lift mentions it lifts during 'manual shifting but auto-clutching' only. I think this is only used for cars with a stick shift if you don't have a clutch pedal, and isn't anything to do with the paddle shift. Can anyone clarify this? What we don't need is people going off into the weeds with their own theories and confusing the issue. If there IS an issue...
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that in the comparison of the video you do not see how fast the gears go, because you do not see or rather do not hear the sound of when he downshifts, that lap is the record for the lap in Record-breaking Bathurst 12Hour lap shootout | LIQUI MOLY Bathurst 12 Hour 2023, of course the comparison is not worth it, you are wrong, it sounds perfectly
 
BedlamSquare said:
There are now confirmed cases in this thread where people have discovered that the 'problem' was being caused by an incorrectly calibrated deadzone on their throttle pedal. I said it last night and I'll say again, before reporting this as a problem, first check that your equipment is working correctly.

There's a post earlier in this thread with a picture of the gearshift 'logic' table for a real car ( I think it's a Cup Porsche). It states, in words, that the throttle pedal MUST be at 0% for a downshift. The Throttle Position Sensor will lag slightly, so that has to be below 20%. That car, IN REAL LIFE won't allow a downshift with the throttle pedal pressed. I don't know if all cars are like that, probably not, but it's certainly correct for SOME of them. Just because you can do it in some other sim does NOT mean it's accurate. Let's just assume for the time being that the developers do actually know what they are doing, and that they have access to cars and professional drivers.

Let's also remember that this update is less than one day old, and the developers have openly stated that there is more BOP and setup work to do. If we give them constructive feedback, that will be far more useful than raging that 'it's BS'.

It might also help the developers to fine-tune the cars if they knew what equipment was in use. If you are having a problem, are you using a keyboard, a controller, a Logitec wheel and pedal set, or a ten grand, full-motion sim rig? Also, comparing with a video tells you nothing - you don't know how rapidly the car is decelerating and the on-screen information lags behind the pictures. As I said last night, with my rig I can downshift just as fast as the video of the Ferrari. I have autoblip ON and auto-lift OFF.

There's an interesting point - the description for Auto-lift mentions it lifts during 'manual shifting but auto-clutching' only. I think this is only used for cars with a stick shift if you don't have a clutch pedal, and isn't anything to do with the paddle shift. Can anyone clarify this? What we don't need is people going off into the weeds with their own theories and confusing the issue. If there IS an issue...
Click to expand...

Useful and interesting information that will get buried in posts saying "I don't like it, change it now!" by a handful of users.

It seems this update it's uncovering issues some have with their hardware or their driving they didn't knew they had. Instead of seeing an opportunity for improvement they see a bug. Simracing for the masses.
 
BedlamSquare said:
Lol! You're right. The real irony there is that the DSP was introduced to stop people gaining an advantage by exploiting the unrealistic behaviour of the transmission model. Sadly, I see that a patch is being released to silence the noisy minority, even if the current behaviour is correct and accurate. That makes a mockery of the claims that trF2 is the most accurate simulator.
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I don't think it's so negative. Probably many people won't know how to properly setup their hardware and this change can help in such cases without removing the feature. I prefer 100% realism too, but we, the purists, are really the minority.
 
BedlamSquare said:
Lol! You're right. The real irony there is that the DSP was introduced to stop people gaining an advantage by exploiting the unrealistic behaviour of the transmission model. Sadly, I see that a patch is being released to silence the noisy minority, even if the current behaviour is correct and accurate. That makes a mockery of the claims that rF2 is the most accurate simulator.
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the gear protection change should be there, but it is too exaggerated at the moment, watch the video again, it seems that you have not seen it
the Pro formula, the GTEs already have gear protection and you can't downshift so easily, the GT3's have to be corrected because it's not correct, too much retention sometimes even when braking it doesn't downshift,In my opinion, obviously everyone can have their opinion
 
Bernat said:
Useful and interesting information that will get buried in posts saying "I don't like it, change it now!" by a handful of users.

It seems this update it's uncovering issues some have with their hardware or their driving they didn't knew they had. Instead of seeing an opportunity for improvement they see a bug. Simracing for the masses.
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You say this because you are convinced that the current implementation is realistic, but often enough mistakes were made, e.g. the Btcc were released with Dsp although they don't have Dsp at all, the BMW M2 and the Callaway came with broken suspension, the M6 Gt3 with a wrong positioned rear axle what has long been denied. This is for me typical fanboy behavior where criticism of the favorite is always denied and always the critic is too stupid to use his equipment correctly. Just funny that the patch is already in the works
 
juanchioooo said:
the gear protection change should be there, but it is too exaggerated at the moment, watch the video again, it seems that you have not seen it
the Pro formula, the GTEs already have gear protection and you can't downshift so easily, the GT3's have to be corrected because it's not correct, too much retention sometimes even when braking it doesn't downshift,In my opinion, obviously everyone can have their opinion
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In the videos it can be clearly seen that the driver completely releases the throttle to downshift. You can have your own opinion too, but don't try to change the facts we're seeing. There's no need to post videos that don't prove anything.
 
BedlamSquare said:
Lol! You're right. The real irony there is that the DSP was introduced to stop people gaining an advantage by exploiting the unrealistic behaviour of the transmission model. Sadly, I see that a patch is being released to silence the noisy minority by allowing on-throttle downshifts. So either the initial release was botched, untested and completely wrong, or the loudest voice wins even if it means making the simulator unrealistic. Neither is a good look, to be honest, and makes a mockery of the claims that rF2 is the most accurate simulator.
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The Dsp was introduced to prevent the engine from over-revving when downshifting like the Gt's and not to prevent shifting while using some throttle input , because the latter interferes with racing without there being a reason for it.

. No one is asking for a deactivation of the Dsp but an implementation as it is used in reality. And if the Gte they simulate the Dsp like all other sims and as you know it from Onbord videos also from Gt3, then that must be questioned.
 
Andregee said:
You say this because you are convinced that the current implementation is realistic, but often enough mistakes were made, e.g. the Btcc were released with Dsp although they don't have Dsp at all, the BMW M2 and the Callaway came with broken suspension, the M6 Gt3 with a wrong positioned rear axle what has long been denied. This is for me typical fanboy behavior where criticism of the favorite is always denied and always the critic is too stupid to use his equipment correctly. Just funny that the patch is already in the works
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No, wrong. I'm saying this because no one has been able to post evidence. In fact, they've tried and instead posted videos that showed the opposite. I'm not to say if it's realistic or not, but I know when arguments are poor and emotional. If they change it because it's a bug, I'm OK, if they have to change it because of the outcry, I'm not fine with it. Some users say they can't drive them, some are driving them like they did before without issues. I showed a video of a hotlap in Monza with the Ferrari that can be compared to the real onboard. When your poor arguments are confronted you can't do anything but call us fanboys. Is this the way to discuss something we aren't experts at?
 
Nicolas Pailhes said:
Hello everyone,

That's the whole problem with the new DSP, you have to get used to it and not drive these cars like before and frankly I find it more realistic.
I play Iracing a lot too so that must help a lot too.
Regarding the tires, I did a long stint with tires on the callaway it's really good what you did, I love the feeling, and the sounds are very good too, it lacks a bit of detail like the sound of the TC which is very 90s video games but it's still pleasant to listen to for the rest.
Just a few negatives to note although this update is the first: (Not for the purpose of "crumpling")

-The LEDs you added for TC and ABS, are you seriously kidding? An example with the m4 GT3, you have a great Dash with LEDs on the side which are made for that... and you add strips of LEDs to the dashboard LOL

-The downshift protection beep, we are talking here about realism... what does this have to do with these GT3s? Don't trivialize the game, we want a simulation :)

-I saw a message on the fact that you will probably not return to the cockpits for lack of time, but if you could at least redo new dashes and leds that would already be a good start. The goal is still to bring people to this simulation, right?
Look at what IR is doing next door, why do you think people go there even though it's a lot more expensive?
The answer is simple, they just pay attention to detail, especially on cars and I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that.
Even if lately you have improved a lot I must recognize it and congratulate you on the way :)

I have Rf2 since the very beginning under ISI I want to clarify, and being a fan of this simulation, I have no desire to see it die so please pay attention to the details, you will have more things to win in the end :)

Sorry I went through google translate :)
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I have to agree with the point about the dashes and the huge variation in quality. During last week, when I tested the LMP2 cars, I was pretty shocked about how much worse the cockpit of the Oreca looks in comparison to the Ligier. I mean, I don't expect the studio to remodel all the cars, but please for the sake of a decent QA, please atleast conmsider to add proper PBR shaders to all the dashes and replace some of the worst offending textures. The steering wheel of the Oreca is simply unexcusable. And looking at the newest cars, there is no reason why the motec displays of the older DLC cars can't be optimized to look less stretched. In some cases it's all over the place.

During the last two years there was a nice push to bring all the tracks to a decents standard level across the board. But I have the feeling for the cars this has kind of slowed down too much to a complete halt pretty much. And the track roaster update is still pretty much WIP. There are some very nice tracks like AMP, NOLA and a few others, that would simply make rF2 a more polished experience if treated the right way. There are modders who updated complete track packs to the new material system in the meantime, please don't stop half way through. People still complain about this quite often and it's a justified point and just adds that little sour vibe to the smooth experience. I mean, in one race you fire up the fantastic looking 488 GTE and the next session you are confronteted with the RSR and it's a quality shift of ten years.
 
BedlamSquare said:
I think he's saying it for exactly the opposite reason - we DON'T know if the current implementation is realistic, but there are some VERY vocal people who don't like it and are convinced it isn't. I think the correct thing to do is actually find out, from a REAL GT3 driver or team, whether or not the implementation is correct before making knee-jerk reactions. Patching it one day after a couple of very noisy people made a fuss on a forum could look like a knee-jerk reaction. Having said that, I can't actually find any reference to a patch...

I'm absolutely not a fanboy. I REALLY don't like rF2, and the developers have made plenty of mistakes, I agree. But I do think we should give the benefit of the doubt. Does anyone actually have access to the DSP logic tables for any of the real GT3s?
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Old sequential transmissions needed manual clutching on downshifts and engine cut of or autolift on upshifts. The ignition was briefly interrupted when the sequential shifter was actuated. Current electronically controlled sequential transmissions have autolift so that the engine reduces the power autimatically while upshifting,
 
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BedlamSquare said:
Lol! You're right. The real irony there is that the DSP was introduced to stop people gaining an advantage by exploiting the unrealistic behaviour of the transmission model. Sadly, I see that a patch is being released to silence the noisy minority by allowing on-throttle downshifts. So either the initial release was botched, untested and completely wrong, or the loudest voice wins even if it means making the simulator unrealistic. Neither is a good look, to be honest, and makes a mockery of the claims that rF2 is the most accurate simulator.
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I don't think the change will be very noticeable. probably a tiny percentage point to allow for hardware limitations. I don't think we'll see a return to the previous behavior, just a slight massage of what is the new method. Probably won't satisfy all the folks, but those with a slight throttle input at 0% will benefit.
 
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Andregee said:
Old sequential transmissions needed manual clutching on downshifts and engine cut of or autolift on upshifts. The ignition was briefly interrupted when the sequential shifter was actuated. Current electronically controlled sequential transmissions have autolift, so you have to ask yourself why, if you are not allowed to use the throttle anyway while upshifting, as is currently the case with the Rfactor2 Gt3. There is a blatant contradiction here.
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I think you crossed the shifts. Zero throttle for downshifts(soon to be modified slightly) and throttle required for upshifts.
 
fischhaltefolie said:
This is not correct. The clip shared by @Leynad shows this.
Look at the first downshift at Tosa. There is almost full throttle applied in the 488. And got to 1:34 at Rivazza.
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Anyone can see how the throttle is at 0% when he downshifts, not only at those points but the whole lap. Anyone can see it, no need to argue.
 
Bernat said:
In the videos it can be clearly seen that the driver completely releases the throttle to downshift. You can have your own opinion too, but don't try to change the facts we're seeing. There's no need to post videos that don't prove anything.
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the video clearly shows that it downshifts much faster than the gt3, it doesn't matter how you use the accelerator, it doesn't matter if it downshifts faster than the simulator
 
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