Released GT3 Update and (v1) BOP

BedlamSquare said:
You know, I think I will. I was one of the people trying to take a reasoned, objective approach to what turned into a childish argument. I was just pointing out that I'm not a 'fanboy' (whatever that is), and I have no bias one way or the other - I just want the simulation to be accurate.

So. Now that the hotfix has been released, did S397 make a mistake with the original implementation? The release notes say it, "has been developed with the aid of several experienced drivers and a wealth of data harvested across multiple group and individual sessions". How did they manage to get it so wrong if that's true? Or was the implementation accurate, but they have changed it because some people didn't like it?

There are only two options. One shows incompetence and the other shows a lack of integrity. Neither of them gives me much confidence in the accuracy of this simulator.

There is a third option, and it's one I've used many times as a manager. If you have to implement something that you know is going to be unpopular, you implement the absolute most unpalatable version first. That way, when everyone complains about it you have a bit of wiggle-room back to the version that you wanted. You get to show that you can make a concession, the team think they won a victory, and you end up exactly where you needed to be. Everyone's a winner...

xo
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I don't say much mate. Your whole argument and everything you have tried to input goes out the window when you apply the bias that you "REALLY don't like rF2" Is that objective as you just stated in your reply? If stuff in my life gets to a point where I really don't like it........I remove it. Simple is best. Lets for minute recognize that people my age got introduced to "sim" racing on an Atari 2600 with Grand Prix. My opinion is "bias" in that it will NEVER be real cars, but the racing is. I appreciate your commitment to making it real, wasn't for people like yourself I would still be on my refurbished Atari 2600. Point is at some time we have got to be happy with what we got access to now. I was not trying to insult you at all. If you are unhappy with stuff and it frustrates you to a point where you are really unhappy with it .......Move on. No hard feelings, Dave.
(I know what I got)
 
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Hi,

Looking at my controller.json file right now and it already have those values"
"Brake effects on steer axis":0
"Brake effects strength":10000

Anyway, I thought those effects statement in the json are deprecated, isn't it?
 
BedlamSquare said:
You know, I think I will. I was one of the people trying to take a reasoned, objective approach to what turned into a childish argument. I was just pointing out that I'm not a 'fanboy' (whatever that is), and I have no bias one way or the other - I just want the simulation to be accurate.

So. Now that the hotfix has been released, did S397 make a mistake with the original implementation? The release notes say it, "has been developed with the aid of several experienced drivers and a wealth of data harvested across multiple group and individual sessions". How did they manage to get it so wrong if that's true? Or was the implementation accurate, but they have changed it because some people didn't like it?

There are only two options. One shows incompetence and the other shows a lack of integrity. Neither of them gives me much confidence in the accuracy of this simulator.

There is a third option, and it's one I've used many times as a manager. If you have to implement something that you know is going to be unpopular, you implement the absolute most unpalatable version first. That way, when everyone complains about it you have a bit of wiggle-room back to the version that you wanted. You get to show that you can make a concession, the team think they won a victory, and you end up exactly where you needed to be. Everyone's a winner...

xo
Click to expand...

Just for the record, despite the claims of you making a 'reasoned, objective approach' I think the way you come across on your posts, if I'm being generous, is perhaps not the way you think it is.

Let's put it this way... if you spoke like that to me face to face, you would end with a sore jaw...
edit:Hmm, maybe that's a bit harsh, my apologies.

So in summary, try and show a bit of respect in your discussions please, then people might take you more seriously.

Now, to the point.. our implementation is correct to the data we are working from - however, seeing the number of people struggling with it, we have decided to increase the tolerance a little on the throttle detection, which should help people who are struggling with hardware interference limitations, and hopefully make the transition a little easier for them.

In real life, especially in the wide variety of GT3 categories, a whole number of different shift protection solutions are available to series organisers and manufacturers. What we have done with this build, as our GT3 class isn't specific to a particular championship, is develop our shift protection to a general version based on the specs provided, rather than a specific type on a per car, per model, per series basis. The initial launch version, and subsequent updated one, both firmly fall within those data parameters, and as such, remain 'realistic' and 'simulation'.

Hope this clears things up.
 
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Nice to see... a welcome update...

can't try it now...but will give it a try tomorrow... hopefully it allow a more 'natural' way of driving.

I'm all for gear protection... btw... mainly to avoid smashing the gear and give 'unrealistic' braking advantage... without engine damage consequence...
but maybe considering to make a 'generic' version of the gear protection that doesn't involve the 'throttle' input or with a very high margin... if mandatory... would be a good idea...

And then case by case... if a car mandate it... make it hardcore... but there any alternative spec/tune always go with the more 'natural one... and the more suited for simracing particularities.
 
Paul Jeffrey said:
Let's put it this way... if you spoke like that to me face to face, you would end with a sore jaw...
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If that is the level of professionalism we can expect from the forward-facing representatives of S397, it's no wonder every thread instantly degenerates into toxic arguments. You seem to be big on respect. The tiny shred of respect I had for this 'community' vanished with that unbelievably unprofessional and childish comment. That's the sort of thing I expect to hear in the playground, not from the Admin of an official forum.
 
BedlamSquare said:
If that is the level of professionalism we can expect from the forward-facing representatives of S397, it's no wonder every thread instantly degenerates into toxic arguments. You seem to be big on respect. The tiny shred of respect I had for this 'community' vanished with that unbelievably unprofessional and childish comment. That's the sort of thing I expect to hear in the playground, not from the Admin of an official forum.
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You accused the devs of being either incompetent or lacking integrity, not sure what response you are expecting. Go play something else if it all upsets you this badly. Like most people I spent a few minutes trying the update, figured out the initial issue and correct my minimum deadzone. After that I was pretty happy. You don't seem very happy, why not go and do something that makes you happy. Or maybe winding up dev teams on forums is what makes you happy.
 
I was really excited about the new hotfix but I was quickly disappointed again. I still get stuck in 4th gear when downshifting and even when upshifting, it sometimes doesn't accept the gear. I really don't know how to race with such an overly sensitive gearbox? At the end of the day, the focus should be on the racing and not on who messes up the least gear changes. It's also almost impossible to get anywhere near the rev limiter when downshifting. It's just not fun to drive like this.
 
I was getting a bit worried reading this thread, and I did'nt get to try the cars yesterday for certain reasons, I'd read the whole thread and have only just now for the last 30mins been testing the cars. So far ive driven the Aston Martin and both Audi's, all at Nurburg GP........

Oh my freaking God I think im in love!!! They feel fecking incredible!!! Love the sounds, they've come alive! Love the working slip lights.

The shift protection seems just fine, hav'nt had to adjust my driving style, (at least when it comes to shifting in these cars) one bit! And I can still down change as rapid as I like into turn one under braking as I usually would.

But the tyres, wow they tyres!!!! Im hooked, must try more cars!
 
Paul McC said:
I was getting a bit worried reading this thread, and I did'nt get to try the cars yesterday for certain reasons, I'd read the whole thread and have only just now for the last 30mins been testing the cars. So far ive driven the Aston Martin and both Audi's, all at Nurburg GP........

Oh my freaking God I think im in love!!! They feel fecking incredible!!! Love the sounds, they've come alive! Love the working slip lights.

The shift protection seems just fine, hav'nt had to adjust my driving style, (at least when it comes to shifting in these cars) one bit! And I can still down change as rapid as I like into turn one under braking as I usually would.

But the tyres, wow they tyres!!!! Im hooked, must try more cars!
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Completely agree Paul. The sounds are superb, and they all drive really well, but most importantly, and ive not seen it mentioned much, the Mercedes steering seems to have been fixed! This update is far more impressive than it appears on paper
 
Just like everyone, I too had to adapt after trying the update for the first time. But isn't that what (motor)sport is all about? Extracting the maximum out of the given circumstances? Even IF the current implementation would be 'technically' wrong, which I don't feel Studio397 would let pass, then wouldn't there be virtue in trying to work around it and adapt your style to suit, even though it might not bring the most satisfaction at first? It reminds me of the interview with M. Schumacher on Top Gear when Clarkson asked him about the experience of driving that Ferrari FXX? Schumacher said it's often much more enjoyable to drive a streetcar like that because "you can just get in and put it on the limit", whereas a F1 can be horrible to drive when the setup is not ideal.

All in all I'm very pleased with the update. To me, the feeling of the tires and the way they behave on and over the limit, is a great improvement. Thanks to S397!
 
Danny Vincent said:
Completely agree Paul. The sounds are superb, and they all drive really well, but most importantly, and ive not seen it mentioned much, the Mercedes steering seems to have been fixed! This update is far more impressive than it appears on paper
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Yup, the Merc is awesome now !
I've been testing a few of the other cars I have (Audi, Corvette, Aston Martin, BMW M6, Bentley) and they all feel great and distinctive. On Sebring, the BMW M6 is the fastest.
 
Danny Vincent said:
Completely agree Paul. The sounds are superb, and they all drive really well, but most importantly, and ive not seen it mentioned much, the Mercedes steering seems to have been fixed! This update is far more impressive than it appears on paper
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YES YES YES!!!! This right here!!! I've litterally just got out of the the Merc.... THE MUTHAFUDGING MERC!!!! Wow, hello! Where you been all my life!!! Its absoloutely fantastic! They've really done alot on that car!

The sounds of everything I've driven so far are giving me goosebumps!

Yeah, you really need to try it to believe it, reading this thread was a bit worrying, so I went in not expecting too much and thinking alot of adjustment to the way I drive and alot of setup work might be needed (seeing as S397 did state its a bit of a WIP update), but, no, i was more than pleasently surprised, im fecking blown away!!!

Must go try more cars, Im gunna be at it all night, is there an official S397 server up with these yet, I'll have to go look at the server list. Oh what a night!!!!!
 
Paul McC said:
YES YES YES!!!! This right here!!! I've litterally just got out of the the Merc.... THE MUTHAFUDGING MERC!!!! Wow, hello! Where you been all my life!!! Its absoloutely fantastic! They've really done alot on that car!

The sounds of everything I've driven so far are giving me goosebumps!

Yeah, you really need to try it to believe it, reading this thread was a bit worrying, so I went in not expecting too much and thinking alot of adjustment to the way I drive and alot of setup work might be needed (seeing as S397 did state its a bit of a WIP update), but, no, i was more than pleasently surprised, im fecking blown away!!!

Must go try more cars, Im gunna be at it all night, is there an official S397 server up with these yet, I'll have to go look at the server list. Oh what a night!!!!!
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Ive waited so long to be able to drive the Merc in anger. Its my favourite of the GT3s but it was undriveable before this update which was a massive disappointment.
In my opinion, id say all the cars feel much more alive now, it makes ACC feel kind of numb. I can forgive the slightly dated graphics because the driving experience is epic. Im getting the love for rF2 back
 
bobbie424242 said:
Yup, the Merc is awesome now !
I've been testing a few of the other cars I have (Audi, Corvette, Aston Martin, BMW M6, Bentley) and they all feel great and distinctive. On Sebring, the BMW M6 is the fastest.
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The M6 drives great now, also really enjoyed the Porsche round Spa.
 
Pawel44 said:
While I don't care about schmelzedes, Ferrari feels much worse than before. I'm using a default setup, so maybe that is a problem. However, setups should be updated as well, right?
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Possibly down to the setup not working well with the new tyre, however I dont own the Ferrari so I cant really test it or comment on that. I do know the Radical RXC setup appears to be way off though so maybe try finding or creating a setup and see if that fixes the issue for you
 
Jan Titz said:
I still get stuck in 4th gear when downshifting and even when upshifting, it sometimes doesn't accept the gear. I really don't know how to race with such an overly sensitive gearbox? At the end of the day, the focus should be on the racing and not on who messes up the least gear changes. It's also almost impossible to get anywhere near the rev limiter when downshifting. It's just not fun to drive like this.
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Something on your end isn't right, because I found I could downshift to 7500 RPM (In the Merc I think). As discussed here, check your throttle when not pressed, and maybe try auto-blip off. If still having issues try to post what info you can (car, telemetry trace, video showing inputs, ...). If there's a bug somewhere we need to isolate it before they can fix it.

You do need a certain throttle-on to shift up, and have enough RPM as well. Again telemetry from a few failed shifts can help you (and us) work out why.
 
The update works for me. Thanks S397. It's only a small adjustment to the throttle position but it's enough. Can now do more consistent lap times.
 
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