Graphics are Great WTF are people saying rf 1 ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sean_S36, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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  2. taufikp

    taufikp Registered

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    Agree with Jani. RF2 graphic engine is indeed awesome (as shown in my pictures in my post Photo & Video Gallery), much, much, better than RF1, but the problem above for me really is annoying during racing. FYI, I like to run RF2 at 1280x720 to get a good balance between high quality graphic and high FPS. But at this resolution I'll get those blurred cars running in front of me.

    This blurred cars problem is gone once I let rFactor 2 to run at the highest native resolution supported by my monitor, which is 1920x1080. The bad news is my frame rate will drop at this resolution, especially during start and entering T1 for the first time (in any track). I admit the FPS drop is not much, but still can be very annoying when entering the first turn in the very first lap. Once all cars are further apart, the FPS will go up nicely and the simulation will run much smoother.

    Some of you might think that those blurriness are caused by the monitor. Well, it's true if the resolution was not a native one. But this resolution (1280x720) is monitor's native resolution. Since I can run iRacing, DiRT 3, F1 2011 all at 1280x720 with clear graphic, it makes me believe that something is still not quite there yet in RF2 graphic engine.

    Again, RF2 graphic engine is already awesome at this point, but still need lots of optimization and improvement. Hopefully ISI could include the much needed fix in the first beta update.
     
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  3. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    I don't think that it indeed can be quite that good that he claims, but I think that at least it might add something more to current engines, kind of hybrid of that tech and current tech, might make interesting addition to rF perhaps.

    Here is long article that has another angle, according to that we should know how it is before 2013, might be interesting to see what the truth is in this one:
    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...ploring-unlimited-detail.aspx?PostPageIndex=1


    I think that with rF1, I did not get so large impact from higher resolution, but with rF2 resolution seem to affect quite a bit. If I could run rF2 full screen at native resolution of my monitor (1920x1080), it is not quite smooth, it is of course much better when you look far, there are much more details, but performance is not enough, when I set it to window and resolution to something quite small, 1024x768 for example, it runs smoothly but everything that is far is quite blurred, for example road side painted lines go fuzzy blurred quite close, like if running bilinear filtering(?), I have set to trilinear, maybe I should try anistropic.
    Don't indeed care much of how it looks, but when I can't see far, clearly that of course is bit of bother.
     
  4. isamu

    isamu Registered

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    Am I the only one that thinks Grand Prix Legends(with updated patch) looks better than rFactor 2?
     
  5. Davy TASB

    Davy TASB Registered

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    I think the graphics for rFactor 2 are good (certainly better than some of the trolls on other forums are saying) but could and should get better as the game develops.
    I'm hoping DX11 will get added to improve things.

    If it doesn't though, I think rFactor WILL lose a good few customers to the other new sims coming out. At the end of the day people do not want to spend money on new PC's to buy games or sims with yesterdays graphics.
     
  6. privatebrian

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    Yes but not everybody can afford top of the range PC's.
     
  7. worthy1066

    worthy1066 Registered

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    I'm a 40 yr old gamer that has come from the days of the old Atari consoles ,and remember when gameplay above all was key in any game developed at the time .Things have progressed since then and in this era of high end pc's and next gen consoles graphical eye candy has become the the selling factor for all games developers and publishers .I do own a decent graphics card (gtx560) ,but I find it a refreshing change (be it on purpose or otherwise )that a company is trying to create a game that concentrates on it's gameplay aspects (Physics, user based content friendly etc) more than any other part of it's game .
    I do agree that the graphics are'nt up to the high end DX10/11 quality ,but does that matter when a game plays this good even at beta stage.
     
  8. Bounty

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    Probably another discussion for another thread but low settings are for those people. Unfortunately regardless of how much people spend on their rigs how clever hardware gets they are always held back by those that can't afford/be bothered to upgrade. And/or the limitations of current consoles if a title is multiplatform.

    So software developers always "seem" to have to cater to the lowest common denominator.
     
  9. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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    Having watched their 40+ minute interview video on youtube and seen them running it on a laptop in real time and in software mode, I'm getting cautiously more excited about this. But it's nothing I can affect, if it works it works, if companies begin to use it so be it.

    It seemed to run amazingly well considering that it is indeed running in software mode on the CPU, and according to their claims wasn't even properly optimized yet and that they could pull off twice to three times the performance without a huge hassle. If they can indeed make it work like that, and integrate some of the power of the GPU, they could end up with an engine that runs high quality graphics in real time with pretty good efficiency on the CPU, while leaving most of the GPU power reserves available. And we know how much better GPUs are at calculating things like physics... One could even imagine a situation where most of the physics and AI calculations are done on the GPU while the CPU handles the graphics. =)

    Interesting times, I dearly hope they're on to something.
    Some of the optimizations in DX11 could be good for performance, but DX9 is more than capable of delivering the eye-candy you're looking for.
     
  10. Pixelchaser

    Pixelchaser Registered

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    ive been using and modding rfactor since its inception all them years ago. modded for a couple of the older big modding teams. Initially i was very dissapointed with rfactors looks from a few different angles. One of those angles was the fact that we have not had much in the way of progression where this level of sim racing was concerned and being a gamer at heart all ive expereinced is everything else since then and thats mainly console based advances in graphics technology (which are still 5 years old).

    Using the previous architecture was a shock for me, i honestly did expect an update here. But through no fault of my own i believe i was possibly a little nieve and selfish to expect that just because everyone else is doing it. What we do see in this realm is exageration and elaborations upon the graphics effects the natural world can bring us at practically every level.

    ISI have done pretty well IMO to stay away from this and keep what is true and to heart. "Motor racing".. and at a pretty serious level of simulation. Thats all. RF2's sheer leap in physics and feeling was unprecidented by my estimations along side this strange expectation of a graphical overhaul.

    Last night i had my first online race with dynamic weather. what i expected to see i did see. Now heres the tough part to discuss in the face of so many opinions. What i witnessed i have never seen in any other racing sim or game. so graphically i have to say this is actually oustanding. And especially so when you realise the subtle effects it can bring.

    Speaking of subtle ive worked with some of ISI`s staff and subtle and to the point is what there works is. no flamboyant crazy artists making things appear better than what they are due to the engine limitations before them. Whilst for me it still can feel somewhat sterile in flavour compared to everyhing else out there product wise i do believe Luc has done a marvelous job within the framework of whats possible and inclusive of all the extra dynamic things happening trackside that mix with the physics engine.

    The linkage of those graphics combined with the physics literally bring me to a feeling of awe at the exciting race environment we are part of.

    edit: another important point i feel i should make is that within this product thats defined as highly moddable Its atually our Job as modders to now go and make all the wonderfull stuff that we once knew and loved in rfactor. What happened before will happen again.

    ISI give us the basis to do this and we should always look at Luc`s work as the definable example in how we should/could/would go about modding it. There is always a better artist just around the corner ! and there would be no point in ISI releasing a product thats deliberatly moddable where the modders can not better the initial content. If it didnt it may not sell. Theres a bigger picture here folks and part of this is Quality equates to time. Time that modders have to really polish and perfect.

    This old school modder racer is rather happy to be quite honest!.
     
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  11. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

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    A good post :)

    I'll ad one more thing from me, as I'm into relatime rendering.
    If someone says rFactor 2 has great graphics, I will disagree. I see a lot of stuff that could be done better, a lot of stuff that I could have done better, as well as some principal errors in graphics (luckily a lot less than in rFactor 1 :) ).
    But on the other hand - if someone blames ISI for not having better graphics I will disagree aswell. I prefer to have "working" graphics - with all the weather and stuff, instead of most beautifull graphics with no weather effects. Simply because it adds to racing experience which is the most important factor here.

    Ultimately, I want both and I'm more than aware that it can be done. I'm not one of the guys who will say that they prefer better physics at cost of graphics. At the moment, a compromise is understandable, but ultimately I'd like all aspects of rFactor 2 to be great.

    You won't hear me saying graphics is great, because it's not, but you will not hear me complaining either.
    In the worst case (if ISI is reluctant on improving it themselves), we will do some new shaders ourselves and show ISI how it's done ;)
     
  12. Pixelchaser

    Pixelchaser Registered

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    This is the crucial point imo. The graphics are now capable of being combined with the physics explicitly and in multiple areas. This advance alone for me is just excellent. the general updates makes sense and i believe its a very thoughtfull advance in capability that not everyone is initially aware of.(compared to Rfactor 1 that is)as at times it doesnt look so disimilar.

    To some it appears not much has changed, but as you go deeper into it with expereince its becoming apparent that the graphics have had quite an extensive update in theory.but thats in terms of sheer extra content.

    As a simulator its my thinking that Rfactor has a slightly different job in comparison to what you could class as a rival game or simulator. But as a simulator they are bound with the distinction of having to provide somthing more akin to realism as its paramount importance. in respects of that and after 1 months usage iam happy with everything in this area of importance. what i mean is The Interlinking of graphics with the physics more so than ever before. for its a substancial update thats all !....

    Of course there are arguably better simulations out there for some people. But for me at my level and as a modder, this really is the answer to my sim racing question of what to race. and lets consider this new base that we are been given is going to get updated. to how much we not sure, but none the less progression is moving at a new pace and thats good for all sim racers even if to propell rival sim games seeking your attention.
     
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  13. ORA-Quasi

    ORA-Quasi Registered

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    I'm casting a vote in RF2 graphic quality's favour.

    My PC specs are there for all to see, and apart from being only a few months old (except the 2 year old HD5850) it's nothing over the top. I run RF2 at high on everything, with nearly all SFX enabled, and am getting beautiful quality at up to 120FPS.

    The end result comes down to what you are using, some of the PC specs listed tells me not everyone is being totally honest when they claim to be running everything maxxed out.....unless they are enjoying 25 FPS;)
     
  14. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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    Running at the settings you listed would give me around 80-90 fps in practice but 19 AI cars would take it down to around 35 on the starting grid and 60 after the first few corners. There has been a noticeable trend of slightly older hardware (58XX series) working better on occasion than newer (68XX and 79XX series) GPUs.
     
  15. ORA-Quasi

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    The FPS I stated was just last night, with 9 cars. However, I've seen an average of 75 to 90 with 18 cars in the server, and being above board here I think around 70 FPS with that number coming off the grid (I was actually watching where I was going not the FPS numbers), with no framiness.

    All I'm trying to get across here is that if people are going to post negatives, or irrelevant comparisons to another sim/game, then don't embellish the numbers (or make unrealistic claims) to try and give credibilty to what they post.
     
  16. CraigT

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    isamu..I still run GPL and probably always will, but seriously, GPL can't hold a candle to rF2.
    For the most part GPL still runs at 35 fps max unless you use the 60fps patch that practically nobody runs.
     
  17. taufikp

    taufikp Registered

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    After seeing videos and pictures of the latest build of iRacing and Assetto Corsa, I began to wonder whether ISI can catch up, in the graphic departments of course. :rolleyes:

    I'm also hoping Assetto Corsa will be as "easy" as rFactor when it comes to modding stuff.
     
  18. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    I think that their secret is that search algorithm which choses which dots/atoms to be used to represent pixels, so that they just take small part of it and use that to make image, that was in article I linked and it sounds most logical reason for it performing so well.

    But it still leaves issue with amount of data, storing that etc. I guess it is better for static objects and polygons would be still good for moving objects, that is why I think hybrid would be nice, but for example if grass and walls + surrounding scenery would be made using that technology on rF tracks, it would add quite a bit to them, for example no more treewalls, there could be real forests around the track etc.

    Anyway I'm not still believing that, not until I see it on my own eyes :D

    One thing is for sure, if that tech is real and if it comes available at end of the year, then anyone who is adapting it will gain big boost in graphics.
     
  19. SCampbell

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    I think the graphics are looking better than Rfactor 1. The fps performance is what really needs work IMO. I have a fairly quick system and don't get nearly the same performance as I did in Rfactor 1. Understandably, it is a beta, and there are many more variables in RF2, but I think it can perform better.
     
  20. taufikp

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    IMO, not only the track or scenery objects, even vehicles can get big advantage using "Unlimited Details" technology. From the article (thanks for the link), seems they already have a converter that works in 3DSMax and Maya.

    I imagine that all little details from laser scanned cars can be preserved, no more bump mapping to simulate "crease" around vehicle. Also, most interesting to me is damage on car body (or on anything in this voxel based world) will look very realistic thanks to "atomic" scale that would be hard to do using polygons alone. Small bent on bumper or front wing can be simulated (and look) better. The walls/fences can bent realistically in a heavy accident. The accident scenes in Steve McQueen's Le Mans can be reproduced in-game using "Unlimited Details" technology. The track surface can be generated better, and I suppose it will "feel" quite realistic using advanced forced feedback like in rFactor 2. People with motion cockpit will be very happy I guess.

    Well, can't wait for this technology to be used in mainstream games, eeh, simulation. :D
     
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