FIA Formula Two Williams JPH1B Released

jtbo said:
I'm afraid that you are mistaken, it is possible to make car even steer into turn with changes to steering geometry, negative feedback, with 0 feedback your geometry and pneumatic trail of tires just negates other forces, perfectly possible with low caster.
Click to expand...

It is possible. But is there any car designer which would like to produce such car characteristic?
This discussion reminds me one about optimal temperature for NTM oval tires in iRacing. iR team has stated that those tires has optimal temp around 30*C. Really strange to me (and others) because it does mean that such tire is continuously overheated and only moment it is in correct range is when car is staying in pit. Unfortunately since no one can prove it's not true as well as confirm it is true - case is closed and all are forced to belive that iR simulates this thing correctly.

The same here. Some one are trying to say that "zero forces" are possible... Maybe, but really hard to believe. I wouldn't race in this car, at least I would ask engineers for adding feedback forces to steering wheel.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jtbo said:
I'm afraid that you are mistaken, it is possible to make car even steer into turn with changes to steering geometry, negative feedback, with 0 feedback your geometry and pneumatic trail of tires just negates other forces, perfectly possible with low caster.

What kind of geomerty car you drove was? What was weight balance of it?
Click to expand...

That's correct but honestly I do not think you can get a vertical snap like this in real life. I mean...I can understand a progressive aligning torque reduction for min/max angles...but the issue I'm getting is almost vertical, forcing me to manage the steering wheel just with arm forces, without FFB. It's like someone is disconnecting the power supply from your wheel during cornering...:)
 
MaXyM said:
It is possible. But is there any car designer which would like to produce such car characteristic?
This discussion reminds me one about optimal temperature for NTM oval tires in iRacing. iR team has stated that those tires has optimal temp around 30*C. Really strange to me (and others) because it does mean that such tire is continuously overheated and only moment it is in correct range is when car is staying in pit. Unfortunately since no one can prove it's not true as well as confirm it is true - case is closed and all are forced to belive that iR simulates this thing correctly.

The same here. Some one are trying to say that "zero forces" are possible... Maybe, but really hard to believe. I wouldn't race in this car, at least I would ask engineers for adding feedback forces to steering wheel.
Click to expand...

We have been told that pneumatic trail effects negative forces at low speed, also we know that caster is very low which we also know can result even negative steering arm forces, so based on that it looks like that car just has so crappy steering. Also real F2 driver has driven it and has experienced forces, what would be interesting to know if wheel used in test gave zero forces in low speed high turning situations, if it is so then it is so, so far there is very little to suggest anything else though.

I remember reading also something about F2 steering being designed to be easier to cope with forces in steering at high speed, which would also suggest that it can have fairly poor feel at low speed, maybe.

As always there is nothing certain as there is curtain of secrecy over data of F2 car, but then again why ISI would depart from car's specs to provide poor ffb? Also why would they depart from specs to provide too good ffb?

One thing with car is that when standing still and moving a bit there is quite small difference in ffb, but usually when standing still resistance is lot more, it can of course be also related to unfinished contact patch model so we can just wait until it gets done to be able to really judge anything.
 
Tuttle said:
That's correct but honestly I do not think you can get a vertical snap like this in real life. I mean...I can understand a progressive aligning torque reduction for min/max angles...but the issue I'm getting is almost vertical, forcing me to manage the steering wheel just with arm forces, without FFB. It's like someone is disconnecting the power supply from your wheel during cornering...:)
Click to expand...

Do you have G27?

With my G25 I can't say that I would have experienced that, there seem to be always something going on at wheel, mostly I have driven at sepang and first two corners there are quite low speed, so I imagine it should be happening there too?

I haven't driven Palm Beach as I find track bit boring for some reason that I haven't been able to pinpoint yet.
 
You people are ruining my life..

2G04L.png


Switched to a 1nce a day update.. Thank god.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think alot of people are just used the usually used very heavy steering with maximum amount of FFB clipping, just to have some resistance. As opposed to the more correct (atleast for cheap wheels like G27 which can't produce those high torque forces properly anymway) lighter overall steering to make subtle nuances alot more noticeable.
It's the same in Nkp, first thing you do is like half the FFB gain. This makes the steering alot lighter but the grey bar isnt constantly going over the red limiter.

Ow and I miht be wrong here but doesnt this car have some sort of powersteering?
 
Timpie Claessens said:
I think alot of people are just used the usually used very heavy steering with maximum amount of FFB clipping, just to have some resistance. As opposed to the more correct (atleast for cheap wheels like G27 which can't produce those high torque forces properly anymway) lighter overall steering to make subtle nuances alot more noticeable.
It's the same in Nkp, first thing you do is like half the FFB gain. This makes the steering alot lighter but the grey bar isnt constantly going over the red limiter.

Ow and I miht be wrong here but doesnt this car have some sort of powersteering?
Click to expand...

I think this is very much true.

Zeos, haven't you learned already, never subscribe these threads :p
 
jtbo said:
Do you have G27?

With my G25 I can't say that I would have experienced that, there seem to be always something going on at wheel, mostly I have driven at sepang and first two corners there are quite low speed, so I imagine it should be happening there too?

I haven't driven Palm Beach as I find track bit boring for some reason that I haven't been able to pinpoint yet.
Click to expand...

I've a G25 and a F430 (belt driven) and I get the same issue. I feel a similar problem with the F3.5 but with the F2 is very very annoying. BTW Tim said the problem has been reported to devs. :)
 
I just tried the F2 out for the first time last night. VERY impressive on all aspects... Graphical detail, physics, etc... I did notice the turn in "lightness" others have mentioned where you can't really feel the car take a set, but it is still my favorite latemodel sim racing formula car to date. Thank you!!!
 
Tuttle said:
I've a G25 and a F430 (belt driven) and I get the same issue. I feel a similar problem with the F3.5 but with the F2 is very very annoying. BTW Tim said the problem has been reported to devs. :)
Click to expand...

Hmm, I wonder what it really is about, when you have it and I have not such, surely it gragually weakens more I turn as understeer increases, but such snap off ffb I have not noticed.

Something I have noticed is that when front of car jumps a bit that up and down movement slams quite hard not sure if that is what this all is about after all.
 
jtbo said:
I have uploaded videos of how I powerslide out of corners with F1 car and other cars, but it is perhaps so that what is seen is so much against what is believed that it does not register at all in brains, so I think it is wasted effort as is replying and explaining
Click to expand...

Show me a video of you doing it with this F2 car , maybe its the case that decent higher level drivers can tell the difference between being in a controlled slide and a slide that you are out of control of.
 
Jameswesty said:
Show me a video of you doing it with this F2 car , maybe its the case that decent higher level drivers can tell the difference between being in a controlled slide and a slide that you are out of control of.
Click to expand...

I'm not higher level driver.
 
jtbo said:
I'm not higher level driver.
Click to expand...

but you are saying you can controle the slides in the f2 car and power out of corners ?

can you tell me your lap times for the tracks you have been on and also submit a recording of you driving and powering out of corners in the F2 car with some slip angle.

I have shown that I am driving at a resnable pace and I'm not powering out of corners

I have yet to see anyone do this on-line in a replay or in a video I want someone to prove my wrong with an F2 car.
 
Timpie Claessens said:
You can do 4 wheel drifts out of slow corners like the first left hander hairpin at PBR, quite easy with warmed up tires.
Click to expand...

show me a video of this please -

Are you talking about when you shake the wheel "RFACTOR WIGGLE" because the car is essentially lost and you are waiting for grip to return ?

I want to see some lovely crab movements as this is totally lacking from RF2 in the F2 car.

Also please tell me your lap times
 
naifexx said:
Sory for ninja the question not my topic...
But I have the same wheel as Panigale (T500), and have good feelings while turning, stronger at high speed, at low speed they are not as strong but its definitely not like garbing air.
You can feel the nuance of the asphalt as the wheels grip.
Click to expand...

This is default setup 20.7 lock, 430 degrees on wheel. Look at the light blue bar, it's SteeringArm force from -2000 to 2000 N. You can see on longer corners the force goes to near 0 or reverses. The steering goes light on the physics not much you can do with wheel FFB settings (providing you don't use centering spring effects). Of course my driving isn't optimal but it's besides the point here.

Sync is bit off, the data is only 10Hz. Fortunately doesn't really matter for the purpose.

 
Timpie Claessens said:
What's an rfactor wiggle?
Click to expand...

well in RF1 and RF2 due to the unpredictable nature of the cars on the limit its prudent to shake the wheel allot of pro drivers do this as it keeps the car stable when it does happen to regain grip.

Where as in a real car you will generally want to feel the grip back in and be as smooth as passable.
 
krivjur said:
This is default setup 20.7 lock, 430 degrees on wheel. Look at the light blue bar, it's SteeringArm force from -2000 to 2000 N. You can see on longer corners the force goes to near 0 or reverses. The steering goes light on the physics not much you can do with wheel FFB settings (providing you don't use centering spring effects). Of course my driving isn't optimal but it's besides the point here.

Sync is bit off, the data is only 10Hz. Fortunately doesn't really matter for the purpose.

Click to expand...

dude. this is absolutely amazing and proves everything.
what is this plugin and where can i get it?

well there you go guys. what is your response to the 'ffb having loads of feel' now? after this evidence?

Lol at slow speed corners, its like the FFB switches off completely. this is hilarious.
Kind of confirms what I and a few others are feeling anyway.

hell, i thought it was just my brain nerve endings!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top