ZeosPantera
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Tried the car on some other tracks.. It is a bit off.
FIA Formula Two Williams JPH1B Released
- Thread starter 88mphTim
- Start date
This is not a useful contribution to this thread.
I'm not sure I agree with James here, but you're basically silencing an entire (interesting, potentially useful) argument by saying "it's not real life". Like he said, the entire point of the simulator is to simulate real-life driving as accurately as possible. Anyone that's providing well-intentioned criticism is trying to help -- anyone that's questioning the entire idea of driving simulations as if it's a point in argument is just being silly.
privatebrian
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Yes accurately...but accurately does'nt mean it's real.Just my IMHO.
ZeosPantera
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Well I think what he is saying is that the steering we are all experiencing may be 100% perfectly accurate to what an F2 driver feels.. IN THE WHEEL.. What they feel in there ass and their chest is not yet simulated with any logitech products.
So what people here want is, unfortunately, a more "fake" FFB for this car. One that includes the indicators of the cars G-Force and movements to be translated through the wheel as opposed to our bodies. This is just the way sim racing has to be. We aren't getting 2 G's in the corners so we can't tell what is going on unless it is translated into a FFB wheel or some baby shakers.
Jameswesty
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TIM HAS ALREDY SAID THE FFB IS BIENG FIXED
THERE IS A VIDEO SHOWING HOW IT MAKES NO SENSE
outside of FFB the way the car becomes unstable over the limmit is totaly wrong.
Sumone is yet to post a video showing them powering out of a corner as you would drive this car in real life.
With FFB off and driving under the limmit yes the car does indeed seem to be very acuret aside from some subtle tire and grip issues which ISI have said they are still working on and aware of
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If I recall correctly, there was a fairly big thread about FFB recently and this was a major point of discussion. If you ask me, fudging a little bit of g-forces into the wheel is a compromise that's got to be made for regular, consumer-grade wheels. I'd compare it to zoom in simmy FPS games (think the ARMA) series, which tries to compensate for the disparity between real human vision and what can be displayed on a computer screen. Actually, the FOV issue in driving sims is comparable, too.
I also recall something about the FFB being to lower strength in the open-wheelers as an effort to avoid constant clipping. I never found out if that was true, though.
jtbo
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You remember when I told you that I'm not high level driver? I did mention it being right after exiting pits, why would I even try to go fast there? Also as I have told you before, I prefer mastering the car over driving against the clock, I mostly ignore lap times and focus just to the car and I can say that this is car that I feel I could dance around given enough practice.
There is lot more skill required to get what you are after this time, I could do it but I would need to learn the car properly and I simply can't see the point, I prefer to spend my time with making cars.
No matter what we show you, you probably come up another reason why it is not good enough until car is skating like in netkar or LFS.
If Formula 2 driver drives the car and is not commenting car being wrong at the limit, how can you judge car better than him? I'm pointing out here that it really can be something else wrong than what you think.
Look at the data, you can see what I did, so you don't need to guess from video without sound.
First there was claims that car cannot be powersliden (is that a word?), when showing it possible with F1 car and Formula 2 now requirement is to 4 wheel drift the car. Please watch video that I posted earlier where Tiff explains what is powerslide if you think that was not powersliding.
But I recommend you to try to do this powersliding at slow speeds first, then when you get hang of it, I think that you can find out how to achieve that 4 wheel drifting you are after now.
I attach my replay of latest video so you can get sounds too, so you can compare what I told and what data shows to how I drove and maybe then you can see how it really is a powerslide.
privatebrian
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Look if the problem is being looked at by ISI and being fixed what is the problem?
Jameswesty
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Tim has alredy said the FFB is broken
Outside of fudging the FFB for consumer devices its also the case that a real world car will have centring forces on it , also bare in mind that the F2 driver tested this car on a 15K FFB wheel which I'm sure works infinetly better than any consumer wheel.
Also bare in mind as a training tool a simulator does not neccecerly have to be good to drive on the limmit only under the limmit this alows a driver to learn what the car is at least capable of and learn tracks. They can then use real driving skills in the real thing.
A real driver will think of all simulators as a bit of a joke , compared to real life even the best 200+k simulators are a piss take.
jtbo
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I'm not against of such fake ffb IF there is an option to get rid of it, as I don't like to get fake ffb forces, just scientific simulated stuff, but if such would make some other ones happy, I can't see harm if it is an option.
I used to actually have opinion like James many many years ago, but more I learned more I steered away from that opinion, knowing what does which makes opinions change from many of things and there is more understanding why it actually is so, but I doubt that can be told to anyone, everyone must first learn more to realize whole picture.
krivjur
Registered
Steering Wheel Angle=
'Steering' [%] * 'Wheel Range' [deg] * 0.5 / 100
Wheel Range is just a constant I use from lock-to-lock setting on my wheel and change it manually. Potentially future versions of the plugin could dump the steering range setting used inside rF2 but for now this works.
jtbo
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Did he say it is broken, or did he say they will look into it? I think it was latter.
Jameswesty
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Your right he just said he would look into it
then he said "The braking behavior and performance is correct. Although the balance in real life (which most sim racers probably would find too difficult), they actually lock the rears a lot, and the simulation was locking in the same places (which they found fantastic).
The FFB issue has been reported."
Which lead me to believe they had identified it was an issue , rereading it I can see how it could be interpreted in both ways.
privatebrian
Registered
Your right he just said he would look into it
"The braking behavior and performance is correct. Although the balance in real life (which most sim racers probably would find too difficult), they actually lock the rears a lot, and the simulation was locking in the same places (which they found fantastic).
The FFB issue has been reported."
Which lead me to believe they had identified it was an issue , rereading it I can see how it could be interpreted in both ways.
lol
jtbo
Registered
Your right he just said he would look into it
"The braking behavior and performance is correct. Although the balance in real life (which most sim racers probably would find too difficult), they actually lock the rears a lot, and the simulation was locking in the same places (which they found fantastic).
The FFB issue has been reported."
Which lead me to believe they had identified it was an issue , rereading it I can see how it could be interpreted in both ways.
I guess we know how it is when we wait for update, not point to debate about it at all until that happens, imo.
Tuttle
Technical Art Director - Env Lead
My bad ass..I was using the same formula but with the wrong costant...
Thanks!
Yeah. He said they'll look into it.
Jameswesty
Registered
thats why i was not talking about FFB but the physics.
PLEASE just try and power out of a corner when at race speed , or try and do a slight controled slide when at race pace you will see how obsurd it is , when you can clearly see thats how the car is driven in real life when driven fast.
How the car behaves within the grip of the tires is VERY GOOD when driving within the limmit and on flat track , in fact probably the best of any sim aside from the issues ISI have already as well as some low speed grip issues
Tuttle
Technical Art Director - Env Lead
I agree with you (100%) but the fact some people are trying to deny an issue doesn't help at all. Do not help ISI to understand what's going on and do not help other guys who're reporting the same issue.
Apart from this I agree there is no need to start a loop or a war like this...