FIA Formula Two Williams JPH1B Released

I drove at Palm Beach about 15 laps just now with default setup. Other then no smooth feeling in FPS I talked earlier I enjoyed the car. I think it has adequate behavior. Only sad thing is I managed 1.09 and can not understand how one can drive 1.05 or even 1.03. I`m not that slow. May be the track rubbers down so much? But then I think its not realistic to expect that just from rubbering such small track gains 5 seconds.

Also Palm Beach needs some anti-cut measures at first chicane. A sleeping policeman like in Monza for example.

 

Another thing I wanted to say. In Estoril, when I had FPS slowdowns the car was underivable. Like some here describe, no grip, no return from slides, brakes lock up even when I barely touch pedal. So I think when physics and graphics (or other) engines go out of sync it completely brakes the simulation. I had this problem before with Historic F1 cars and GTs on various builds.

 

The same thing happened to me at Palm Beach and I am honestly baffled. When I went to Sebring, I had a different experience and could be fast.

Maybe there is a bug somewhere or maybe we did not drive in the right conditions, but for now its a mystery to me.

 

erm.........accept i did provide by experience of my first time playing last night, and my time, in a previous post.
so.........what you on about? go back and read. its post 225.

Also it makes me lol how people are getting so uptight that people are criticising their precious game, that they are going to the effort of putting people on an ignore list.

its hilarious. i enjoy seeing everyones post, its about discussion. im trying to figure out why you guys say the things you say, the only way to do that is to discuss.
There are only a few people on here who seem to get it - thugg, f2 chump, jameswesty, who describe exactly what i described in my first post.

then theres the rf2 fanatic (+ fanatec) camp who worship anything isi produce. I just cannot see how you can feel something so different, from what we feel.

and thats why its important to put your laptimes, so we at the very least know that you are fully competent in the game, and can drive to a standard that proves you are actually on the limits of the game.

If however youre 3-5 seconds off the pace, then you cannot really say anything about 'feel' because the information you need from the car on the limit is different to just cruising around.

hence the importance of stating laptime. Hence why jameswesty suggested we all get on a server and race.

as he said, not just to prove a point but...heck...isnt this what its all about, racing online.

also, you might need hours and hours of testing haha. Not everyone else does. As i say in my post, took me about 8 laps to get up to speed, figure out the track and the parameters of the car.

The irony is rf2 is very easy because theres no depth to it, there are hardly any variations to what you can do on the limit. Just learn the braking points, throw the car in, make sure you stay on the rubbered line, apply throttle (but not enough so theres no danger you go spinning off) - learn which corners you can go flat (like the last corner at palm beach)....... and thats about it really.

because you cannot balance the car on throttle or anything like that, no skill is actually required to drive the game fast.

again though i will stress that this is my impression specifically of the ISI cars.
i think the mod community will produce something thats much much closer to reality.

in terms of the FFB though, it looks like thats never going to change - and therefore ruins the entire game. i dont know what the mod community can do about it.

 

LOL if you think LFS is the top in regards to tyre physics than your never going to change your mind, rFactor 1 (depending on mod), Game Stock Car, RFActor 2, Netkar Pro and probably iRacing all destroy LFS in terms of tyre physics, other than the fact you cant drift so overly easy in LFS, once again an example of people thinking something is the best just because its easy (easy to drift and deal with oversteer situations), well easy doesnt mean real, it just means it feels good in your hands, which has nothing to do with realism.

 

F1C was a very good sim in the early 2k!

 

+1

 

What you say about rfactor having no depth to it is complete BS though. I see people with different driving styles, different setups doing good setups. Even in rFactor 1. What you say about balancing the car on the throttle is the biggest load of BS in my personal opinion as I am ALWAYS balancing the car on throttle. You just simply dont like the rFactor 2 style FFB and/or physics, it doesnt compute well with you and thats totally cool

Although I haven't tried this car or update 107 yet, everyone likes a different feel in terms of car communication and pure physics. So maybe rFactor 2 just isn't to you're guy's liking and that's totally fine.

Everyone has different preferences on general feel, and on top of that everyones brains and nerve systems are different, and on top of that some people like a more true to life pure ffb system, and some like one that tries to compensate for our lack of feeling the car underneath us.

You guys seem to like the lfs and nkp style of ffb which seems to me personally to give a more sense of weight and mass, which also may give an impression of the car being more planted, and is probably more realistic in terms of the pure steering feel.

Then on the other hand many people seem to prefer the more gritty feel of rFactor ffb which although in terms of pure steering wheel feel may be less realistic, it makes up for this with other forces and feelings to tell you grip conditions of the 4 tyres.

For example, I can feel slight feelings that I can't explain that tell me that I'm just on the limit of locking a right rear tyre under heavy braking, but without need to correct as it is right near the grip threshold but not gone over it yet. Well in lfs, nkp and real life you don't feel this in the wheel, you feel it in the car underneath and all around you, well you obviously won't get that in a video game so therefore loose those tiny slight feelings that matter so much when you are looking for half a tenth here, half a tenth there.

Then on the other hand lfs' and nkp's more realistic especially in terms of the physical mass around you may suit other peoples brains and nerve endings.

That's why we have to be thankful we have a few options in sims to cater to all the different preferences, brains, and what we all assume something should feel like.

So if rFactor 2's style of ffb isn't for you thats cool, Netkar pro and lfs' style isnt for me, feels to much like the historx mod for rf1 with real feel to me, where the ffb seems to be based on the movement of the vehicle mass, sure this makes the oversteer much more natural to slide and correct, and makes the pure steering wheel feel more realistic, and will therefore feel better to many people as it will feel closer to a real vehicle, but my brain on the other hand needs all the tiny judders, twitches, etc of the rf style ffb that's changing thousands of times a second based on grip conditions of the 4 tyres, rather than the more realistic feeling weighty vehicle mass ffb of nkp and lfs.

So everyones brains and feelings are different and that's cool, you guys like the more realistic true to life steering feel, and your brain finds that more informative regarding feeling the limits of the car, then there are others like me that can't feel anything in nkp and lfs ffb system besides general oversteer.

You just simply dont like the rFactor 2 style FFB and/or physics, it doesnt compute well with your brain/nerve endings and thats totally cool, I get the same effect with Netkar Pro and my brain/nerve endings, I just cant get in tune with its "feel" even though I can drive RF1, RF2, iRacing and GSC 2012 just fine (and I believe LFS aswell, although its been years, and I didnt play it much, physics were too boring/stale for me, although the ffb would impress many with its natural and weighty car mass/roation feel ala NK Pro/RF1 HistorX Mod w//realfeel style, but I dont get fooled by clever ffb implementation).

We all expect and want different feel and feedback/communication from a sim like I explained above, for some the RF2 style will gel with there brain's better, for some LFS style, some Netkar Pro style, etc

To each his own but unless you have telemtery data or other "Hard Evidence" to prove ISI wrong than its all your personal opinion based on your feel and your brains expectations of a sims feel/feedback, rather than you being right, you knowing evereything, and all rfactor fans being wrong and just fanboys that know nothing.

I find it amusing, but also worrying on your "analysing a sims'" behalf that you are so particular on a certain ffb "feel" (like many of us, including myself), BUT then in almost the same sentance you could say something like "I just cannot see how you can feel something so different, from what we feel." (in reference to how fanatec owners claim to have a much better/different feel than Logitech owners). I mean, you go on about ffb feelings and pretty detailed ffb stuff page after page, but then you go the complete opposite route and say how different can 2 completely different peices of hardware feel with regards to FFB???? What the?????? Its almost like you only choose a point of argument if it suits you in that particular discussion (Im not the only one who has said this about you).

Thats probably the 3rd or 4th time on this forum that you have said something which seems to sort of go against/contradict other feelings or statements you have made, not directly, but in a general sense. You're the one who is going on about detailed stuff like ffb, car balancing, phsyics etc, yet you could say something like how different can 2 completely different peices of hardware feel? Thats pretty shocking comming from you, when you seem to be pretty analytical and knowledgeable regarding racing sims.

Come on man (shakes head)

 

60F2's FFB is twice the weight of the F2.....

 

No point in arguing.
ISI have your eyes on realism. What is right and what is wrong, your approach how. Something they will not alter, and if you find a bug in koordinalno physics engine, it will not alter. And just to say that in 10 years there is a new super rFactor3 all.
They have a contract or license with F2, all, it is their gold mine and a great publicity stunt for the reality of the product.

to compare the popularity and quality of the product is monitored online servers all the simulations simultaneously ... Where more people (for information LFS sold as alpha version)? rFactor2 loses I think even the first part of his rFactor1. Dubious development.

I'm not a fan of rFactor 2, but really want to correct the physical model and the equipment to create a high-quality series of real racing. That a man sat down and rode and said, "It's so real!"

ISI works fine, but it seems wrong principle of the physical engine. Many of the problem, do not feel the car's weight ... The question, Why?

 

that sentence had nothing to do with different pieces of hardware. i just put (+fanatec) in brackets, coz theres not only rf2 fanboys but also people who go 'its amazing with fanatec' as well.

so....you totally misunderstood that.

on a seperate subject, just on fanatec (to be clear) - i havent played it with a fanatec wheel, obviously, but dont see how that would make much difference, because the rf2 FFB doesnt provide any weight - as its basically realfeel plugin.

also the majority of people have g25/g27. so if they have indeed developed the ffb to only work properly with a higher-torque wheel, then its a serious own goal by ISI.


the reason why RF2 FFB doesnt compute well with my 'nerve endings'.........is because it provides no feel to drive the car.

And - even if it DID, even if it provided amazing FFB .... the physics is all wrong anyway lol (especially at low speed). So it wouldnt even matter.

as i say... waiting for the mod community to develop cars properly for it... they actually know what they're doing.

and yes......some people like me would prefer more artificial communication as to what the hell is going on with the car.
this is a game. not real life.

The fact that youre admitting that rf2's ffb is 'true' Versus 'ffb that gives more information' kind of breaks down your entire argument.

if youre not getting as much information, by definition you cannot be controlling the car constantly on the limit and playing with it, like you say you are.

i just keep repeating myself, ultimately. we all need to play on a server online this weekend and race together.

also, what hard evidence do ISI have that they are right? lol.

i can't be bothered to quote you and respond to each thing, i'll probably do it later properly when i wake up. Takes too long to multi quote people on forums.

 

off top:
I want a $ 100 million, I sponsored a team of ISI, that nebylo they have problems with financing, and develop properly if something is missing, to invite more people who can help.
100 million enough?))

 

Well first off I`ve not read through the entire thread as I just don`t have time for that so if any of my points have been mentioned already then accept my apols.

Ok, well I have to say that my very first impressions of the F2 were a little disappointing. The car feels very light and "floaty" at the front, lacking grip and not giving much feedback through the front wheels. It also seems to suffer from a great deal of understeer that when I tried to compensate for, turned into snap oversteer.

I`m no setup expert by any standard but I know how to help give a car more grip etc and this just wasn`t working for me with the F2. There doesn`t seem to be as much "feel" from the road with this car as there is with the other cars in rf2, I didn`t really feel connected to the road at all...

Something else I noticed is when your hammering down the straights, close to the edge of the track the car almost wants to drag you off the road... like it gets a sniff of curb/grass and thinks "yeh! I`m having a bit more of that" lol...

Now I have to say that I couldn`t spend a great deal of time with it so far so maybe some of these points will eradicate themselves when I do and I`m also prepared to say that maybe I just need to "learn" to drive it as one would in real life.

The plus points are that I think it looks beautiful, very well done indeed. I love the skins too, very cool and this baby looks great in the vids and screens I`ve seen of it. It`s very photogenic.

Sounds great and has amazing braking power, as I`ve said, it`s just the few steering issues I`m experiencing atm that are a little off putting.

However I shall continue to test it and report back with any other findings I come across.

 

What is the result of a dispute?
ISI will come up as to hide their mistakes? honestly or change the principle of the physical engine, which correctly calculates the mass and weight of the car and work FFB?

 

Its ok you dont have to quote it all, too much work, and I am reading your whole post anyways.

No no, you got it allll backwards. Read my entire post again, and throughly. I was saying that Netkar Pro has more of a true to life feel, in terms of pure steering feel, that is A. probably why lots of people like its ffb because it feels much more natural and relate-eable to most peoples experiences driving a car and B. why I personally cant feel sh*t all with that games physics/ffb.

From everything I have read over multiple threads, it sems to me that you, demitry, james, and im sure many other people, like the more "feeling the cars' mass and weight" feel of ffb, and that is more NK Pro style. Others may like a more game-ish less realistic ffb where it is not as real world feeling, but is set in a way to tell you lots about certain grip conditions that the car is going through, and due to this different philosophy regarding ffb, may not (to some) give a good sense of being A. planted to the ground B. having a vehicle mass "underneath" you, and that lack of mass/planted weighty feel can put many people off, even though the ffb may be giving lots of info about actual tyre grip in other ways.

Also, you say rf2 provides no feeling, well that is your opinion, and mine is that Netkar Pro provides no feeling while RF provides tons to me, again due to different ppls brains/nerve endings or whatever its called, needing and expecting different sensations in order to "compute" with them.

And the whole "what hard evidence do ISI have part??.. Come on man I shouldnt have to explain to you this. Im sure all software developers have TONS of hard data. Do you think they just make up random numbers and go by feel (especially when it comes to simulation games)??? Of course they have connections/contacts/resources in the industry in order to get physics values, telemetry data, performance data, analysing slip angles, the total amount of grip values at what load and at what speed, how a certain quick bump or weight transfer load change has an affect on ride height, how that split second ride height change affects grip and balance levels, etc etc etc etc as accurate as they can.

Hide mistakes? Change principles of the physics engine? I dont understand what you are saying, but it seems to me like you are stating that ISI are completely wrong in their physics engine and ffb coding, and that they should stop hiding their mistakes?? If this is what you are saying than who are you to call a super complex physics engine or whatever as wrong (unless you are some crazy programmer or engineer guy), and on top of that accusing ISI of hiding mistakes.

ISI are the no compromise, attempt to be as technically realistic as possible type of sim developer, and thank God for this lol, as not all the developers in the so called sim market are. (I think only ISI, Kunos, Reiza, iRacing and probably lfs guys are the only ones who fit in this category, that still leaves a few out). It is for this dedication and commitment to "as realistic as possible" that I dont think they would be hiding behind mistakes as I think you may have been trying to say, they would be the type (like im sure Kunos, Reiza and the others I mentioned) to do whatever they can to fix the issue, because that would then be in the way of their goal, to make as realistic as possible racing sim, rather than hiding behind it.

If I mis-interpreted what you were trying to say, then of course I apologize

 

That's funny because I thought they were two completely different cars.....

 

Are you a troll?

 

Spinelli, all you understand what I said. Interpritirovali you about right (as far as I can accurately translate translator). Yes rF2 feels quite girlfriend than other simulators.

B1K3R - I do not know what a troll ...

(seems I again get any negative feedback)

 

I'm quite gutted really, been enjoying racing online in the clios most nights, now everyone has gone onto this. For me this just feels the same problems as all the rwd dive cars. Not enough feeling for slip which always results in a tankslapper for me even at stupidly low speeds. And I find it impossible to control a drift. I get that ice feeling and the never ending donut with the wheels strainght at 2 mph which just doesn't happen in real life. And yes I have had rear wheel drive cars with no traction control in real life and I'm still alive. And I'm using the Fanatec. The only way I can drive this car (and any rwd in rf2) is to have traction control on full which makes for very dull driving. I'm not blaming ISI maybe its my settings, I hope it is. Just relaying my feelings in the hope that someone says "oh have you tried changing x" ? None of the rwd cars feel immersive to me for these reasons. Help??

 

Come on guys! There are things more important than this!
Everybody has different point of view and even if they are wrong it remains an opinion!