Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Steven Luppino, May 13, 2017.
You are right LokiD, get yourself a DD wheel sir
Ironically, the wheel being too light on the simulator was the complain Alonso had after his very first Indy run. I don't know which sim did Fernando used, but I assume it was rFactor Pro.
would be nice to add some friction multipier for non DD wheels then.. Damper sort of helps, but I don't want to turn that on/off for each sim.
I don't get it when people say iracing or rf2 where designed for dd wheels,because when the ffb/physics where created,dd wasn't even around,in the case of the former,and not even mainstream for the later.
I was led to believe (maybe years of fanboys from rf2), rf2 maximised ffb potential was thru a DD wheel. But I agree with you.. I bet more people have basic consumer wheels.lol I always though of having 2 types of FFB one raw and strong for DD wheels, and one still quite raw but maybe some added weight to bridge the gap.
When comparing to a real car there is soooo much detail missing. Most of my friends who raced in their younger years won't even try my sim and the couple who do are very disappointed. Looking at it through their experience I have to agree. Having said that I have got some big improvements using rF2 and Pcars. I haven't had anyone over since that. But my guess they would still think sim racing has a long way to go yet.
My biggest complaint is latency. A real car, even on icy road conditions is more responsive to my smallest corrections. AC and rF2 have a rubber band feel. Lately I got Pcars to be the best responsive but it lacks so much physics rF2 has. There is something I like about AC that others don't have. It would be nice to fit the physics of these three sims together.
A real car is more violent and precise. I never lose the detection of my wheels in a real car while I'm driving blind in a sim most of the time. Feeling around in the dark.
I just reverted back to DX9 and rubber band feel is gone. I forgot how responsive rF2 really is.
I feel bad for getting this DX11 update without paying for it, because this really is rFactor 3.
Well just driving my car around pretending to be senna on early morning open roads,I actually think we have way more information coming thru the steering in the form of ffb than I get in my car.
maybe it's the power steering,but I definitely feel more info in sim
Not a problem with the Simulator but with the hardware they used propably. And at the end of the day he is a well trained F1 driver used to 2017 spec F1 cars that are much likely much more of a handfull than any sim out there. As Loki allready pointed out, DD wheels are propably what you need to really see the full potential, until then it's using a toy wheel to simply get a feel for weight transfere and not to replicate real forces. I am pretty sure that you can break your wrists in rF2, rFPro or whatever, if your wheel is just powerfull enough. Watch the video of Jimmy Broadbent testing his new rig and how the wheel rips out of his hands in iRacing during a spin. If that isn't heavy enough, then I don't know.
Did you try RBR with NGP?
Feeling on loosing/gaining weight on jumps is excelent.
I believe I noticed this too.
Dx9 didnt have ffb latency, it was very immersive and easier to drive.
Did anybody else experience the same?
I haven't driven in DX11 yet. I have only tested it to check a lower performance.
Considering I have a quite lower end PC I cannot affford losing more fps.
However it is very interesting what you say. It would be good to check other people's opinions
Real racing cars typically produce at least 15 Nm peak torque on the steering wheel. Direct-drive FFB wheels can reach this number, whereas G27 only produces 3 Nm (source). So if the sim FFB is 1:1, which rF2 attempts to do, it should feel 4 or 5 times less on your G27. If it feels even moderately as strong as in real life, then the sim is faking the forces and outputting max more or less all the time.
It's not that rF2 originally was built for DD wheels, it's more about the philosophy to not fake forces so that they feel stronger on weak consumer wheels like G27. When the force scaling is 1:1 to the real car, then naturally it will feel a lot better on a DD wheel that can actually reach the peak torque of a true car.
What RBR and NGP please? Is that in RF2?
I think the point is that these sims have been designed with an aim to be as close as possible to a 1:1 simulation of the steering effects of the real cars. The fact that most wheels have to scale that back to avoid clipping doesn't really change the design approach. AC added some additional effects which IMHO work pretty well like a loudness button on a stereo system to exaggerate some effects at low output (i.e. a wheel like a G27). When the output increases these effects aren't necessary and it is a more pure "as designed" delivery. That is my interpretation anyway!
Richard Burns Rally with the Next Generation Physics mod.
Jimmy's new rig vid has given me a new appreciation for how strongtgose dd wheels are. I can see now why we have this issue. Watching jims vids for a while and now he's gone to a dd wheel I can see the change its made to his driving. Probably more so than any other dd wheel vid.
but as said I would like a non dd setting with some added forces to bridge the gap
Please don't forget that he cranked the wheel up to 100 and that he has quite some clipping in there too. So he lost some of the details and only gained more armmuscle...
I'm sure it will look a bit different when it is setuped.
I'm jealous, but Jimmer deservs it!
You might be surprised! I have an OSW not even cranked up to full power and if I select the auto setting in iRacing (max setting without clipping) in say the Nissan it is a serious workout and a spin can rip the wheel out of your hands.
Oh don't mistake me, I'm sure it is a workout. I always wonder what it feels like when driving through Pouhon with a DD wheel, because even with the T300 it feels heavy already but.... I'm sure you can't even compare... crazy...
I'm happy with my t300 having tried a osw,bodnar v2 (I think it's was a v2) and accuforce,don't get me wrong,dd wheels are better in every single way,but apart from the accuforce,the other two didn't really give me much more detail,just a tighter,quicker feeling,and obviously much much more powerful.
But for me,power isn't everything,as I find the power of my t300 enough,and concidering the cost,I just can't justify it for the marginal gains you get on track.
Now the accuforce was the stand out one for me,and that was solely down to simcommander,because you could add in extra effects,but still the price to performance gained on track in my mind is just ridiculous.
Now if you see power as immersive then you might like dd wheels
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