[REL] F1 1979 HISTORIC EDITION 2.02 BY POSTIPATE

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by Postipate, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. Postipate

    Postipate Registered

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    I dont really want to take sides with is some track realistic or not, but would be good if somebody has too much time and create this video with both version (notice that he is making 15 sec slower lap time than usual):

    Would get good side by side video to compare this track.
    But really does it matter so much about those tiny differences with tracks? Especially when historic version cant have realistic bumbs or camber when there ain't videos good enough or laserscan.

    Those low pole meshes problem is usually that car start to make very weird looking jumping, but haven't really tried that Dijon. However sometimes watching old videos there seems to be really huge jumps.

    99455l.jpg

    This picture really shows the problem these old track from rF1 have. Many of them are conversion from GPL of F1C and that's why old roads have very unrealistic grips when cars just jump in corners without getting any touch to ground. This really depends of the tracks. rF2 FFB can get bit wild bit older wheels in these tracks, but have to say that t300 is sometimes very good with these tracks (my g25 is not...).

    About that grip.. I personally think that tyres have now bit too much grip now and will change it, but why you think that good racing ain't possible? Usually the best side by side racers are with good grip and slow cars :) And why you think that that track has to have more braking points and more lifting? There is zero info about it anywhere in net. If you find please tell me. Also kyalami layout aint 100% right. Its smaller than track in real life and corners ain't really like they should be. But just small things differently. My favorite track still so not complaining.

    Also the right grip of track is bit hard to say. rF2 3rd party mods usually have same track grip with modern and old circuits. Is the asphalt grip same as 40 years ago? or is there realistic amount of dirt and sand like they had back then on road? Does the rF2 model how normally aspired motors had big problems at high altitude tracks (no)? Did drivers back then drive fast as possible with these car or did they back down because these cars were deathtraps? Is the track really 1:1 scale when there aint any good videos of the tracks or any way to scan it? Is all the cambers and bumbs modeled in right place? Was the wheel shake so bad that driving full speed in corners was not possible?

    I spend 6 months with getting the 1975 physics realistic as possible and laptimes realistic as possible Watched literally every race from 70's from youtube and other video services as I could find from start to end (not 79 season)! Yeah I had too much free time :D I really want to believe that mod has the best possible simulation from that year and still understand that there is many many things wrong there. But FOR ME its better to use that mod as reference point than any other right now. Safe bet for me would have been convert 1:1 the physics from 1979 mod. but I decided not to. Everybody would be happy because nothing changed. I still still want to believe we can make the mod even better. It will just take some time more. Right now physics are not finished and Im just one guy alone compared to huge team with Vetaran modders who know so dark shit about physics. Hoping to be that dark wizard too sometimes, but rF2 is complex as fuck compared to rF1 modding. Im sure there is way to simulate your mothers weight to mod if you just know how to do it :D

    1979 season laptimes were around 4-6 seconds fasert than 1975 season and altaught the drag:lift ratio is much much much better, there is still bit more drag with these cars than in 1975.Engine powers are quite same, so lap times got much better with increased downforce/grip. That is HUGE differences when you talking about so short tracks. So there cars should be very very good to drive in corners and have huge grip.

    I know that people saying this is unrealistic and this is realistic is usually about comparing to rf1 mod, and yeah I understand it. :) Its great mod that showed the way to many many many other mods in future so everything that is different to it feels bad to HC fans. Just sadly sometimes feels that older simulator fans think that harder=realistic. I understand because I get same feeling sometimes. Last time was driving Assetto Corsa Lotus 72d and it feeled easy as driving my Volvo S60 with just bit of downforce. That cant be right? But then I calmed my tits and taught maybe that's realistic. How do I know that? I dont.. But I know that these cars were peak of technology back the and were made to drive fast and easy as possible back them. No driver wanted huge amount of overteer. Why you think they had so small front tyres in 70's and less grip and underteer? It made cars easier to drive. I actually think that drivers tuned their cars to understeer just to save their lives when they loose control of the rear. Not that it was faster, but they didnt have option to press esc and go to pits and start again. Think of the times you crashed in rF2. You died everytime in real life. Make yourself simulation and let somebody punch you in the face with hammer everytime you crash. You would have 5 sec slower times. right away

    But then again. I agree that tire grip is bit too much right now so we are on same page, just this text is my own thinking on here :)
    Most important thing IMO is the feeling of the car to the point you really believe it is that car you driving (think of GPL. Unrealistic in so many ways, but still many thinks its the best historic simulation to this day. Myself too think that). There has been simulation of the historic cars since Geoffs Grand Prix 1 to this day. And all cars behave differently in all games? We have AMS, rF2, rF1, Assetto Corsa, Pcars, GPL, iRacing etc. and still the historic cars drive differently and FFB is different. So do we really have any good simulations of these cars are just something that is close enough to make us think that this is realistic and this is not. Can we ever get good simulation with our PC or do we have to still wait for another 15 years and then we laugh how bad "simulations" that Postipate made back then, because in year 2035 we can calculate all tiny rocks on road and tickle in ass while driving 24 Le Mans+realistic dying in VR??? Do people still think that GP79 is best simulation to this day or is there better simulation now came to market? If there is better ones does it mean that original was not simulation?

    One think I would like to say still, that I think that these ground effect cars should be easiest F1 cars.. Engines were very low powered and there was downforce like in modern formula. Tire technology started to take leaps forward and track started to be safer. That is just imo and all other opinions are just as good as mine.

    Maybe the hardest thing with these formulas was lot of shake in wheel because cars were touching bottom all the time so cars were horrible to drive that drivers complain it all the time.. This dont really feel realistic l in Sim games without proper wheels. I actually toned that thing down, because everybody would start to say that FFB is horrible because it doesn't feel like my sedan and is unrealistic. But then again, is that complaining in this matter realistic if that happend in real life too? :D Also when we get proper gearbox simulation in rF2? We would loose 1 second just with that alone when we have to save our gearboxes.

    And point of this text was? I agree with you about the tires :D

    And please lets not start some war about realistic physics or anything like that. There is other thread for that! Not my cup of tea. I just want to enjoy driving these cars with good friends and having good time with some beer.

    damn this got too long and one big mess. :D

    :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  2. Postipate

    Postipate Registered

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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  3. Arnao

    Arnao Registered

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    Can't remember exactly but Dijon has at least 8 polys for width... It's not a direct conversion from RF1... I've redone all track layout but maybe it's a bit too flat !!!

    Dijon79 layout.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  4. Postipate

    Postipate Registered

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    Thats great! I really have to test that track.:) Havent yet raced there. Did you have any other tracks in works? Would be awesome to have updated trackpack for rf2
     
  5. Arnao

    Arnao Registered

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    No sorry just have test conversion of Zolder and Dijon but it was when i had time. Car was asking too much time for my poor skill and was not finish to...
    Postipate please ask to Zonder but it will be really cool to have Zonder cockpit version on Tyrrell Lotus and Rebaque...
    It's asking a complete redone of the car gen but work had been already done on 0.45 versions. Keep your shell but add Zonder Cockpit
     
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  6. Postipate

    Postipate Registered

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    Just smoothing the terrain is great! More skills than I have.

    Adding the cockpits is easy task. Will ask, but right now I will focus on some other things first :) lot to do with this
     
  7. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Well, my post #41 was not meant as criticism that mod is bad it is actually joy to drive and I like it a lot, however I doubt that tires from 79 had such huge grip.

    Onboard Jean Pierre Jabouille Buenos Aires 1979. Listen pedal inputs how careful Jean Pierre is.



    Onboard Jean Pierre Jabouille Silverstone 1979. Gear changes and braking distances.



    :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  8. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Zolder version 0.20 is last update from you ?
     
  9. Postipate

    Postipate Registered

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    Yeah I know it was not :) It was just something I have wanted to write here for long time

    All those videos I have compared with real lap times are still way of the best lap times by 5-15 seconds so they are driving very slowly.
    Read some article from 70's onboard video (dont anymore remember which one) that those camera mounts caused drag and they had to avoid sudden braking because those video stands could have fall of. Also the aero balance of the car was not their best. (Have to say that Argentina video is quite good. Looks like he is driving quite hard with that car, but I think that he could have started acceleration earlier and brake later on tight corners)

    Have to say that biggest reason I think sims are now bit of bad with the historic cars that you dont really have to shift like that in sim VS how those guys shift in real life. rF1 mods had some tweaks to fake it, but we really miss true gearbox modeling still after these years in rF2

    About those braking distances. I think they really wanted to brake bit earlier than it would be possible. They didnt have any telemetry like modern drivers have now. Im sure you dont want to test in 300 km/h can you brake 30 metres further with car that most like will burn you alive :D But again, dont know any better than most of us. Same for acceleration. Like we usually just crash 30 times and then find the right amount of gas in corners. In real life they cant do any mistake. hard to find the limits

    Great feedback Ari again! That tire grip is good point from you and will fix
     
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  10. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Ohh yes, gearbox modeling was promised 3-4 years back in time and it is huge same rFactor 2 don`t have it.
     
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  11. Postipate

    Postipate Registered

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    Did test with Arneos Dijon. I think the road mesh was very good compared to other rf1 conversions. Maybe the biggest thing to fix there is those materials and material settings. And maybe the track is bit too narrow

    But damn we had fun time there with Ari battling for our places and blowing up our engines :D
     
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  12. Postipate

    Postipate Registered

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  13. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    284km/h
     
  14. guga_cyr

    guga_cyr Registered

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    That version of Nords in my screenies is ripped from AC, but it IS pretty damn good, especially in these cars.... Can't remember where I got it - or who ripped it - but will have a look when I get home & let you know.

    The other tracks in the screens are Fuji (on steam wkshp) & Silverstone/Monza from Carrera4's F188 mod (also on steam wkshp).
     
  15. Jka

    Jka Member Staff Member

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    284 km/h could be pretty close. With slipstream they could reach 295-300 km/h on places like Paul Ricard's Mistral straight.
     
  16. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

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    Braking very late !! crazy crazy crazy moment!! :):eek::p
     
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  17. Kelju_K

    Kelju_K Registered

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    THIS!

    Why is it that ALLWAYS* when someone fiddles with the original physics, it becomes too grippy and easier to drive than the original.

    Such a shame. it might feel awesome to some but hardcore veterans are running out of good mods allready because of this.
    everyone wants their favorite car as THEY like it and feel that they can drive it as fast as their hero driver did.
    please leave the physics as they were. or if you feel the need to "improve" them, do NOT increse the grip! zeesus...

    Question to modders: how many time you test your work with "negative testing"? ie. test how crappy driving it lets you get a way with?
    drive with a bit jerky wheel inputs and sloppy pedalwork. it should be 50% of the testing imo. if you just drive your best all the time testing it doesn't reveal it's (the mods) true colours.
    many times i do this in the beginning of testing a new mod, and it is amazing how many times i can jerk the wheel like i'm having a seizure and just slap the pedals on/off and STILL stay on the road. no race car with high horsepower lets you do that irl, period.

    *ok that allways might be an exaturation ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  18. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

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    For me the original mod rf1 was not very realistic it slipped too like driving on ice ...:rolleyes:
    But at the time everything that was slippery and hard to drive was so realistic ...:p
     
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  19. Brack Jabham

    Brack Jabham Registered

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    For me, the original mod was GPL2. It was the first mod in a long time that gave that feeling. Beaten only by Historix

    Love the work going into this - it is already GPL2.5
     
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  20. Brack Jabham

    Brack Jabham Registered

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    Perhaps you should sign up to test mods? If you are a professional race car driver many mod teams could benefit from your experience.
    If you think your role is simply to criticise without spending all those hours of effort to make something, then no-one will take your point of view seriously.
    The only way to improve mods is to spend the effort working on them. Join a team and give them the benefit of your experience. Then you will have credibility to your comments. In this case, send a PM to Postipate and make that offer
     
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