A modern tin top ie a car that you strip out, fit a rollcage to, uprate brakes, tune engine, go racing etc would almost certainly keep the power steering, even if they fit a quick rack it would still be powered. A track only car may not, anything pre 1980 probably doesn't, yes it is all relative, I think rf2 does a pretty good job of giving you the different sensations. It does exaggerate it quite a lot to make up for what you don't feel in g forces, but the howston feels like a big old fat tyred no power steering car, and the gtr feels like a heavy but power assisted car and so on. I don't think a fanatec csw is the be all and end all, I just don't see how the forces can be described as weak, they are strong enough to tire you out, they are strong enough that you avoid curbs because they slow you down virtually but also the wheels forces will pull you off the line a bit, further slowing you. I doubt if I had a bodnar I would want to feel more forces than that (during driving at any speed). I would want it because it can exert the correct amount of force quicker, and then in an instant go completely light (with no belt keeping a constant damping sensation) which will replicate the vehicle getting light or even airborne much better. The bodnar would also be able nice to exert more forces when turning the wheel on a non power assisted car while stationary as that does take a fair bit of strength. I'd want it because you cant get smoother than direct drive. Yes I want one without even trying it. Definitely not because it has the power to pull my arm out the socket while doing the hairpin at croft though. I think the csw and no doubt the t500 can already exert enough total force to replicate normal cornering. They just can't do it quickly enough and that's why servo wheels are good/ better/ the future. Is my theory, until I own all 3.
There is a post on the iRacing forums with a detailed chart of real-world steering torque figures and how they relate to FFB wheels. I will see if I can find it again but, it was a while ago. They showed that the mid-range FFB wheels do a decent job of replicating the torque of today's power-steering systems but, only the servo-motor FFB wheels can replicate the force and torque of most of the old-school non-power-steering cars. All wheels - except the servo-driven ones, will have severe clipping issues at such high force settings - even if they did have enough power.
If only there was more than one available. It is still just the bodnar one that you can actually buy isn't it? I'm holding off on it, until there is at least some competition. Not that I have a spare lump of change like that just sitting there either so that helps. Would be great to see that real world comparison. Love to know how they got the real world torque at the steering axis figures for a 1960s GT cornering at Le-Mans at some stupid speed. That is a joke, but it would be interesting to see the method they used to measure real against ffb, that in itself would be a challenge worth reading about. I have driven a variety of vehicles over the years and can safely say once rolling even quite a big vehicle doesn't want to dislocate your shoulders. Whilst stationary different matter. I don't know if even a bodnar has the force it used to take to park a ford transit with unassisted steering box in a tight space, once that pig was rolling though you didn't notice anything that heavy about the steering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bynp2wiadKM http://www.sae.org/students/cockpit_control_forces.pdf Page 3, few examples of cars and their measured steering torque.
Hmm similar boat here, but I am happy with my Fanatec GT3rs V2 and will only upgrade to a servo motor wheel next if I actually need to and have the money in pocket, with other aspects of my sim rig complete. I am due to go down to see the Bodnar, I can't part with that much money without actually trying it. On your topic, there is a much cheaper accuforce becoming available, at least I thought?. I would also hazard a guess that when that wheel arrives it will push more mainstream wheel companies to try and get some kind of servo wheel. It is noted to be cheaper. Give it 2-5 years and maybe there will be more choices at an affordable cost if one of Logitech / Fanatec / Thrustmaster released one the rest would surely follow. That might happen with pressure from Accuforce etc All subjective but ...
Entirely agree Data, that's pretty much where I'm at with it too.Was hoping Fanatecs big news was going to be csw servo base... I dream! Do you book an appointment and go and try it with a Bodnar then? Wonder if he might consider a group buy!! Yes if we even knew a price or expected release date on the "other" one it would help. That information hasn't been particularly forth coming and I don't expect it to be cheap anyway, but with the way the fed are manipulating the dollar exchange to help their exports, it could still end up considerably cheaper to buy a servo wheel for dollars not pounds.
I don't know about booking time, I might give them a call. First thing I am supposed to be trying is a Vesaro base :S but am keen to try some servo wheels. We could always gain interest in a group buy, then query it with him. Good call
But These are only steering torques, while other effects are much more powerfull. A Bodnar wheel reaches 18nm torque ,a CSW oder T500 nearly 5nm, a G27 2-3. If you set the 2 consumer wheels to 5nm steering torque only you will get clipping at its best. I know it from older racing Cars that they reach a torque from 25 nm and more.
So my T500 is fixed again, but what a ballache! It was actually unsoldering and re-soldering 5wires, 2 of them were very thin and the instructions were referencing a 6th which wasn't there! Then when I put it together and plugged it in it didn't work!! The light was on for a sec then off and the wheel didnt turn, windows was telling me it was an unknown device, I tried another USB socket, same symptoms, the instructions said I NEED to calibrate it with some "TRSWheel_Calibration" software which was nowhere to be found anywhere. Then 4 hours later I tried a USB3 socket and boom it calibrated fine. So for some reason it only wants to work in USB3 sockets now. But whatever, the difference from my old G27 is immeasurable, I'd forgotten how much better the T500 is, I just need to figure out how to drive fast with it again!
If it works usb3 it should work on all, sounds like one of those wires isn't soldered as well as it needs to be. Coincidentally making a good enough connection when you plugged it in the usb3. I would try resoldering the wires They are going to have to put up with vibration and shaking. An iron with temperature on it makes soldering big or small wires the same difficulty. If you plugged a usb device in and out really quickly while playing a game I'm pretty sure it would soon be brought to a grinding halt. This might be whats happening with a slightly iffy solder joint.
Yes the USB3 thing is strange, I tried 2 different USB2 sockets as well, one on the back and one on the front. I think I did a good enough job at soldering, no absolutely terrible joins, and the power socket and USB wire came pre installed on the new PCB. I think/hope the problem may be related to the original problem just because it cuts out in a similar way as the first time, it usually happens under heavy load, the FFB becomes erratic for a second, and then cuts out and the game crashes, only this time the wheel stays turned on!? I could do with them replacing the wheel now tbh.
Yea tried uninstalling and re-installing many times when I was trying to get it working on the other USB port. Did the firmware update when it came online. At this stage I could just do with Thrustmaster sorting me out a replacement unit, just gotta wait 24hours between email responses now!
I had similar experience with my CSR Elite wheel as DrR1pper. 1st motors burnt after ~6 month, Fanatec sent me a replacement wheel. 2nd motors burnt after ~12 month. Fanatec repaired my wheel within a week. The service is good, but I think there is an unsolved design problem. I'm out of the 2 years EU warranty now (tough I think chances are high that after the replacment the 2 year warranty starts again and after the motor repair the 2 year warranty starts for the repaired motors again, I know it's the case in Austria and possibly the case for the whole EU). But there is a 2nd problem which I think all < ~$1500 wheels have: Motors get hot (in ~15 min) and when hot losing power and fidelity. Because of these two problems I'm now trying to get a mod for CSW and CSR-E to solve these problems: http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/fanatec-csw-csr-elite-modders-thread-update-february-2014.274631/ This guy uses two Bühler motors (different and smaller ones as in the T500). They should be way more reliable and have more power. Standard Fanatec motors have 5.2 Nm (5.38" rim). Bühler motors have 8.8 Nm (5.38" rim) of torque. The heating problem is solved by getting the motors cooled from inside with an external air pump. Some people already got their wheels successfully modded and they are now into organizing a group motor purchase to get the motor costs down (the Bühler motors aren't cheap like the standard motors). I'm confident this will solve my motor problems and pretty much improve the FFB of my CSR-E, maybe you are interested too.
Really? I've never heard of this before and doubt it possible in the UK. If it is true, in the case of the CSR-Elite (and possibly CSW's) if you live in Austria then you have an indefinite warranty based on the wheels super consistent track record of breaking down (multiple times) easily within 2 years.
I think it would be reasonable that warranty extends when a part is being replaced. They need to guarantee for their new parts, that it won't die on the next day. Otherwise they can replace a part however they want, maybe put a used part which is close to their lifetime limit..
