Build 90 Discussion

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MarcG said:
If people are still looking for the "Perfect one" then they're gonna be disappointed
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On the other hand without looking for better level, we may stuck (and as live shows, it happens). That's why I'm asking for improvements in various way: by reporting flaws, writing about missing features or forcing other to think about it for example by comparing results to competition.
BTW: On other forum (commercial soft support one) I got even price and being most valuable reporter of issues and ideas. Yeah... surprising? It may work this way too.

If majority of community will be asking for the same thing, they probably will get it. Or at least it is more likely than not asking and waiting what happens.

Unfortunately I have mixed feelings about ISI. On one hand they working on breath taking technologies. On the other side nothing works when talking about cooperation/communication/development flow etc. No road map, not plan, no todo list, no dates, no issue tracking. When I asked for changes in result files which may take 5 seconds (changing 2 characters) - it's still not done after 6 months. If asked for naming conventions - I got answer there must be none, cause that's only subdirectories - nothing more (and now we got layout names on track list). Every report given for the last 18 months about gfx is answered 'it is WIP' or is taken offensive.
On the third hand (if I had 3) it shouldn't be surprising. I can remember the same stand of ISI while rF1 was still under development. Or we thought it is. Same Q&A, same wishlists, same bug reports, in most cases without response or reaction.

Again, if some one is ok with current state, it's ok. If some one cannot see flaws - let it be. If some one don't want to talk about it - no one is forcing to do that. But why to attack some one else, just only because he is talking about the truth? Is this forum dedicated to write only positive things? Maybe should I knee down and say: ISI is great, rF2 is amazing, the best, nothing may compete with it and never will, Amen.
 
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@Saabjock - yes, good idea, crowdsource and feed into the product, add feels3 name to the credits, etc.

@Tim - Two ideas/suggestions:

1) Consider requesting dev do a Public beta build on a fixed schedule, wrap up fixes and features by end of every third or fourth week and do some candidate builds and release. It will have what it will have but I think beta users will know they have something to look forward to.

2) This is a bit out there, use kickstarter to gauge interest and raise money for licensed tracks that otherwise would not be in rF2. Set the contribution goal to whatever it needs to be to be profitable and let the community respond. Would need to work out how to reward the contributors with something special but quick to do.
 
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MaXyM said:
On the other hand without looking for better level, we may stuck (and as live shows, it happens). That's why I'm asking for improvements in various way: by reporting flaws, writing about missing features or forcing other to think about it for example by comparing results to competition.
BTW: On other forum (commercial soft support one) I got even price and being most valuable reporter of issues and ideas. Yeah... surprising? It may work this way too.

If majority of community will be asking for the same thing, they probably will get it. Or at least it is more likely than not asking and waiting what happens.

Unfortunately I have mixed feelings about ISI. On one hand they working on breath taking technologies. On the other side nothing works when talking about cooperation/communication/development flow etc. No road map, not plan, no todo list, no dates, no issue tracking. When I asked for changes in result files which may take 5 seconds (changing 2 characters) - it's still not done after 6 months. If asked for naming conventions - I got answer there must be none, cause that's only subdirectories - nothing more (and now we got layout names on track list). Every report given for the last 18 months about gfx is answered 'it is WIP' or is taken offensive.
On the third hand (if I had 3) it shouldn't be surprising. I can remember the same stand of ISI while rF1 was still under development. Or we thought it is. Same Q&A, same wishlists, same bug reports, in most cases without response or reaction.

Again, if some one is ok with current state, it's ok. If some one cannot see flaws - let it be. If some one don't want to talk about it - no one is forcing to do that. But why to attack some one else, just only because he is talking about the truth?
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+100500
 
Panigale said:
@Saabjock - yes, good idea, crowdsource and feed into the product, add feels3 name to the credits, etc.

@Tim - Two ideas/suggestions:

1) Consider requesting dev do a beta build on a fixed schedule, wrap up fixes and features by end of every third or fourth week and do some candidate builds and release. It will have what it will have but I think beta users will know they have something to look forward to.

2) This is a bit out there, use kickstarter to gauge interest and raise money for licensed tracks that otherwise would not be in rF2. Set the contribution goal to whatever it needs to be to be profitable and let the community respond. Would need to work out how to reward the contributors with something special but quick to do.
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We have talked with some modder(s) about that kind of thing already. We do think of these things...

We have a private testing forum, with a private testing team. We also have bug tracking and we have a development schedule for that private testing. These wild assumptions based on the fact that it's not being seen here, are not in any way factual. There is no set schedule for PUBLIC RELEASE OF updates. That's all I said. :) There is no bearing on what people are reading into that.

I've seen that kickstarter before. While it's a nice idea, I am not sure the sense of ownership needs to be skewed that far. :)
 
Slightly off the main topic, but i think kickstarter would be a great way to get tracks and cars built that otherwise may not be built at all. Some of the best modders are building content that they have interest in (such as a local track) but if there was a financial incentive to do the work for money, the community would benefit from higher quality and more content. Have 10-20 people, maybe more, pay for a track to be built by a renound modder, for their investment they get access to early builds, and then say a month after completion it gets released FREE to the community. I would certainly pay just to have some lesser known tracks built by some of the best modders out there :)

e: not even licenced content, im not sure many people care if its official anyway
 
We can't market our product with unlicensed modded content. :) What modders do, and whether they get funding for themselves, is nothing we can be involved with if they haven't gained a license. I very much doubt kickstarter can be used for that type of situation, either.

There's never been anything to stop the community organizing itself like you suggest, but I can't say I have ever heard a modder mention they made a lot when they asked for donations. The modder then has to deal with everyone believing they could work faster.
 
Well it benefits both ISI and the community if done - like most mods - completely outside the scope of ISI. For example, I'll bet some people found out VLM have released Sebring, and came to ISI to buy RF2 just to run that track. They know its not licenced, ISI has nothing to do with it, but everyone benefits from it. I'm just saying kickstarter would make it more viable for some content to get built.
 
1959nikos said:
Im talking about my experience here. If yours is different, say so, dont twist my saying please.
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Damn, i´m not twisting anything. i´m trying to understand what you say.
I´m not good with english neither can read peoples mind (even in portuguese).
Sorry Nikos, not intended to offend you. Some time this look like a ladys forum about PMT.
 
Tim Wheatley said:
There's never been anything to stop the community organizing itself like you suggest, but I can't say I have ever heard a modder mention they made a lot when they asked for donations. The modder then has to deal with everyone believing they could work faster.
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Haha very good :D
 
MaXyM said:
On the other hand without looking for better level, we may stuck (and as live shows, it happens). That's why I'm asking for improvements in various way: by reporting flaws, writing about missing features or forcing other to think about it for example by comparing results to competition.
BTW: On other forum (commercial soft support one) I got even price and being most valuable reporter of issues and ideas. Yeah... surprising? It may work this way too.

If majority of community will be asking for the same thing, they probably will get it. Or at least it is more likely than not asking and waiting what happens.

Unfortunately I have mixed feelings about ISI. On one hand they working on breath taking technologies. On the other side nothing works when talking about cooperation/communication/development flow etc. No road map, not plan, no todo list, no dates, no issue tracking. When I asked for changes in result files which may take 5 seconds (changing 2 characters) - it's still not done after 6 months. If asked for naming conventions - I got answer there must be none, cause that's only subdirectories - nothing more (and now we got layout names on track list). Every report given for the last 18 months about gfx is answered 'it is WIP' or is taken offensive.
On the third hand (if I had 3) it shouldn't be surprising. I can remember the same stand of ISI while rF1 was still under development. Or we thought it is. Same Q&A, same wishlists, same bug reports, in most cases without response or reaction.

Again, if some one is ok with current state, it's ok. If some one cannot see flaws - let it be. If some one don't want to talk about it - no one is forcing to do that. But why to attack some one else, just only because he is talking about the truth? Is this forum dedicated to write only positive things? Maybe should I knee down and say: ISI is great, rF2 is amazing, the best, nothing may compete with it and never will, Amen.
Click to expand...

Good points made in a well constructed post.
 
@ Tim

After have had a lengthy vacation from rF2 I reinstalled it a couple of days ago and love it. The only thing bothering me is the black mirror problem. Is there any fix for this problem within the horizon? It kinda kills the feeling of being there you know...
 
THracing said:
@ Tim

After have had a lengthy vacation from rF2 I reinstalled it a couple of days ago and love it. The only thing bothering me is the black mirror problem. Is there any fix for this problem within the horizon? It kinda kills the feeling of being there you know...
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Couple of causes have been fixed, but I didn't have it, so can't confirm it's gone for all. They tend to not spend time on areas they are intended to do work on anyway, I'm not sure rear drawing and mirrors are actually setup yet.
 
Johannes Rojola said:
I am little bit disappointed that every sim is offering the exact same content. One makes Bathurst, 10 others will follow. One makes Nordschleife, 10 others will follow. One makes something that looks like Porsche, 10 others will follow. One makes vintage Formula car, 10 others will follow. One makes vintage Spa, 10 others will follow.

Good thing is that rF2 offers nice moddable platform, but current sim racing scene is still pretty boring to look at.

Who would make Tractor Pulling? Rally Raid trucks? Monster Trucks? Racing trucks? Vintage land speed record cars? The oddball cars from Pikes Peak? Pikes Peak? Vintage Drag Racing? Demolition Derby? Public road tracks? (I know pCARS have few, nice)

You know, there is more than Formula One and GT...
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And what about Pagani Zonda? 50 of 10 racing games have this car. No to mention the hype on the stupid Top Gear cones' improvised track. As you said, the good thing is Rfactor is a moddable platform in contrast to others.
 
MaXyM said:
if I say appearance (modeling,texturing, material properties), will it be easier to answer?

btw what is wrong with asking? I found isi cars low quality and want to know if improvements are under consideration.
if you are ok with current quality, your bussines. But I would like to see best possible in rf2. is it wrong?
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It's a very contradictory stuff: it's amazing to drive the 370Z, what a physics! But when I press Replay and see those awful car shaders... what a contrast. :(
 
Didn't read all the postings but coming from LFS the update rate and developer communication here is absolutely outstanding. Thank you ISI!
 
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